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  1. Îíèõîìèêîç
    îò Àëåêñàíäð(Ñïá) â ðàçäåëå Çäîðîâüå êîæè, äåðìàòîëîã
    Îòâåòîâ: 2
    : 19.05.2006, 12:50
  2. Îíèõîìèêîç è Îðóíãàë
    îò Tashkent â ðàçäåëå Çäîðîâüå êîæè, äåðìàòîëîã
    Îòâåòîâ: 9
    : 19.06.2005, 11:23
  3. Îíèõîìèêîç
    îò ANSULA â ðàçäåëå Çäîðîâüå êîæè, äåðìàòîëîã
    Îòâåòîâ: 11
    : 17.10.2004, 05:59
  4. ÎÍÈÕÎÌÈÊÎÇ
    îò imported_Ìèëà â ðàçäåëå Çäîðîâüå êîæè, äåðìàòîëîã
    Îòâåòîâ: 1
    : 01.09.2004, 19:30
  5. îíèõîìèêîç
    îò Âëàäëåí â ðàçäåëå Çäîðîâüå êîæè, äåðìàòîëîã
    Îòâåòîâ: 23
    : 01.09.2004, 19:30
  1. ANSULA
    #1
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Çäðàâñòâóéòå.



    Ó ìåíÿ âîïðîñ ê äåðìàòîëîãó ñ òî÷êè çðåíèÿ õèðóðãà.



    Îíèõîìèêîç: ëå÷èòñÿ êîíñåðâàòèâíî èëè ñîâìåñòíî ñ õèðóðãîì?

    Äåëî â òîì, ÷òî áîëüøàÿ äëèòåëüíîñòü êîíñåðâàòèâíîãî ëå÷åíèÿ îíèõîìèêîçà, ÷àñòûå ðåöåäèâû è äîðîãîâèçíà íå äîáàâëÿþò ïîïóëÿðíîñòè ëå÷åíèþ ìèêîçîâ íîãòåé âîîáùå.  ñìûñëå: åñëè ïðîèçâîäèòü óäàëåíèå íîãòåâîé ïëàñòèíêè õèðóðãè÷åñêèì ïóò¸ì, êàê ìíå êàæåòñÿ, ñîêðàùàåòñÿ äëèòåëüíîñòü ëå÷åíèÿ, õîòÿáû íà òîò ñðîê, êîòîðûé íóæåí äëÿ ëèçèñà íîãòÿ êåðàòîëèòè÷åñêèìè ìàçÿìè (1-2 íåäåëè). À òîò ôàêò, ÷òî ñðàçó óäàëÿåòñÿ áîëüøàÿ ÷àñòü âîçáóäèòåëÿ è ñðåäñòâà ìåñòíîãî ëå÷åíèÿ äåéñòâóþò íåïîñðåäñòâåííî "â ñàìîå ñåðäöå" - òîæå ïðåäñòàâëÿåòñÿ ëîãè÷íûì.



    Òîëüêî âîò, ïðîñìàòðèâàÿ ëèòåðàòóðó ïî äåðìàòîëîãèè-ìèêîëîãèè, ðàáîòàÿ â íåïîñðåäñòâåííîé áëèçîñòè îò äåðìàòîëîãîâ, êàê òî íå çàìåòèë àêòèâíîñòè êîëëåã â õèðóðãè÷åñêîì ïëàíå. Õîòÿ èìåþ îïûò ëå÷åíèÿ íàãíîèòåëüíûõ çàáîëåâàíèé ïàëüöåâ, ãäå íîãòè áûëè ÿâíî èçìåíåíû (âîçìîæíî îíè è ÿâèëèñü ïðè÷èíîé íàãíîåíèÿ), óäàëåíû (êàê ìåòîä âñêðûòèÿ ãíîéíèêà) è â äàëüíåéøåì ëå÷åíèå ñ ïðèìåíåíèåì òîãî æå êëîòðèìàçîëà èëè ìèêîíàçîëà ìåñòíî, (à åñëè ïîâåç¸ò, òàê è êåòîêîíàçîë è äàæå ôëóêîíàçîë) ïðèâåëî ê èçëå÷åíèþ îíèõîìèêîçà. Âî âñÿêîì ñëó÷àå åñòü íàáëþäåíèÿ áîëåå 4-õ ëåò.



    Èëè ÿ çðÿ âîçìóùàþñü? Ìîæåò ýòî ÿ ïî ñòàðèíêå äóìàþ, èëè òàêàÿ ñèòóàöèÿ òîëüêî â ìî¸ì ðåãèîíå?

    Ïðîñòî æàëü ëþäåé ñ óðîäëèâûìè íîãòÿìè, îñîáåííî æåíùèí.



    Ãîòîâ âçâàëèòü íà ñåáÿ ãðóç îíèõîìèêîçà â îòäåëüíî âçÿòîì îòäåëåíèè

  2. krmaya
    #2
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Âîïðîñ î÷åíü ãëóïûé èëè ñëîæíûé?

  3. Âÿ÷åñëàâ ßð
    #3
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Âîïðîñ íå ñëîæíûé, ïðîñòî íà ôîðóìå íåòó ìèêîëîãîâ.

    Îíèõîìèêîç ìåñòíûìè ïðîòèâîãðèáêîâûìè ïðåïàðàòàìè áåç óäàëåíèÿ íîãòåâîé ïëàñòèíêè (íåîáÿçàòåëüíî õèðóðãè÷åñêè, óäàëåíèå âîçìîæíî ñ ïîìîùüþ êåðàòîëèòè÷åñêèõ ïëàñòûðåé èëè ìàçåé), êàê ïðàâèëî, è íå ëå÷àò. Íî íàñêîëüêî ìíå èçâåñòíî, äàæå â ýòîì ñëó÷àå, äàëåêî íå âñåãäà äîñòèãàåòñÿ èçëå÷åíèå. Ïîýòîìó, ïðè çàïóùåííîì îíèõîìèêîçå ïðåäïî÷èòàþò ñèñòåìíûå àíòèìèêîòèêè (íàïðèìåð, òåðáèíàôèí) èëè êîìáèíèðîâàííîå ëå÷åíèå.

  4. Ñîâà
    #4
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Ñïàñèáî çà îòêëèê, óâ. Âëàäèìèð ßêîâëåâè÷.

    Òî ÷òî íåò ìèêîëîãîâ íà ôîðóìå ÿ çíàë, íî äóìàë ÷òî äåðìàòîëîãè õîòü ÷òî-òî, íî ñìîãóò îòâåòèòü. Âñ¸ æå, õîòü è òîìó æå ÷òî è ÿ, íî ó÷èëèñü, è äàæå áîëüøå - ÷àùå ñ ýòèì ñòàëêèâàþòñÿ, à â íà÷àëå ïðàêòèêè, âåðîÿòíî íåïîñðåäñòâåííî ýòèì çàíèìàëèñü. Èç ÷åãî ÿ ñäåëàë âûâîä, ÷òî çíàíèé â ýòîé îáëàñòè ó íèõ äîëæíî áûòü ïîâûøå. À ÿ ìíîãîãî âðîäå è íå ñïðàøèâàë



    Âîïðîñ ìîãó óòî÷íèòü - áîëåå ëè ýôôåêòèâíî áóäåò ëå÷åíèå îíèõîìèêîçà, ñ âûðàæåííûì ïîäíîãòåâûì ïðîöåññîì, åñëè óäàëÿòü íîãòåâóþ ïëàñòèíêó õèðóðãè÷åñêèì ïóò¸ì, ñ èññå÷åíèåì ìÿãêèõ òêàíåé íîãòåâîãî ëîæà, ïîðàæ¸ííûõ ãðèáîì?

  5. Svetlanka
    #5
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Óâàæàåìûé Ãàëëåí!

    Íå çíàþ, ÷èòàåòå ëè Âû ïî àíãëèéñêè, íî êîå-êàêóþ èíôîðìàöèþ ìîæíî íàéòè çäåñü:



    http://emedicine.com/derm/topic300.htm



    Åñëè íóæíî, ïåðåâåäó Âàì òî, ÷òî êàñàåòñÿ õèðóðãè÷åñêîãî ëå÷åíèÿ, äàéòå çíàòü.



    Surgical Care: Surgical approaches to OM treatment include surgical nail avulsion and matrixectomy by chemical or mechanical means.



    Chemical removal by using a urea compound should be reserved for patients with very thick nails or for those who may not tolerate mechanical avulsion.

    Removal of the nail plate should be considered an adjunctive treatment in patients undergoing oral therapy.

    A combination of oral, topical, and surgical therapy can increase efficacy and reduce cost

  6. NatashaKazan
    #6
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    For example

    ____________

    ...Treatment of onychomycosis

    Historically, the treatment of onychomycosis has been challenging. Orally administered griseofulvin (Grisactin, Gris-Peg) has been available for many years, but its use is limited by a narrow spectrum, the necessity for long courses of treatment and high relapse rates. The oral form of ketoconazole (Nizoral) is much more effective but carries a risk of hepatotoxicity.[6]



    Onychomycosis has long been treated with topical antifungal preparations. However, these agents are inconvenient to use, and results are often disappointing. Treatment using nail avulsion in combination with topical therapy has been somewhat more successful, but this approach can be time-consuming, temporarily disabling and painful.



    The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) has labeled ciclopirox (Penlac) nail lacquer for the treatment of mild to moderate onychomycosis caused by T. rubrum without involvement of the lunula. Although safe and relatively inexpensive, ciclopirox therapy is seldom effective.[7]



    In recent years, treatment outcomes in patients with onychomycosis have improved substantially, primarily because of the introduction of more effective oral antifungal medications.[8] Current evidence supports the use of these newer agents as part of individualized treatment plans that consider patient profiles, nail characteristics, infecting organism(s), potential drug toxicities and interactions, and adjuvant treatments.[9]



    Triazole and allylamine antifungal drugs have largely replaced griseofulvin and ketoconazole as first-line medications in the treatment of onychomycosis. These agents offer shorter treatment courses, higher cure rates and fewer relapses.[10] Of the newer drugs, terbinafine (Lamisil) and itraconazole (Sporanox) are the most widely used, with fluconazole (Diflucan) rapidly gaining acceptance. These medications share characteristics that enhance their effectiveness: prompt penetration of the nail and nail bed,[3] [11] persistence in the nail for months after discontinuation of therapy[12] [13] and generally good safety profiles. Published studies measuring "mycologic cure" (negative KOH preparation or negative cultures) and "clinical cure" (normal nail morphology) have demonstrated the effectiveness of all three medications...



    ...Adjuvant Treatments

    In addition to oral medications, some patients benefit from other treatments. Surgical or chemical nail avulsion may be useful in patients with severe onycholysis, extensive nail thickening or longitudinal streaks or "spikes" in the nail. These nail changes can be caused by a granulated nidus of infection (dermatophytoma), which responds poorly to standard courses of medical therapy (Baran R, Hay RJ. Partial surgical avulsion of the nail in onychomycosis. Clin Exp Dermatol 1985;10:413-8.)





    American Family Physician

    Volume 63 • Number 4 • February 15, 2001

    ____________________



    or



    Gupta AK, Scher RK, De Doncker P. Current management of onychomycosis. An overview. Dermatol Clin 1997;15(1):121-35.



    Elewski BE, Onychomycosis: pathogenesis, diagnosis, and management. Clin Microbiol Rev 1998;11:415-29.

    _____________________

    ..........

  7. gentledi
    #7
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Vladlen

    yananshs ....



    Ñïàñèáî çà çàî÷íóþ "êðóòóþ" îöåíêó, íî àíãëèéñêèé òîëüêî "ñî ñëîâàð¸ì", ïîýòîìó, åñëè ìîæíî ïî ðóññêè, ñâîèìè ñëîâàìè...



    Áóäó ïðèçíàòåëåí...

  8. ïóòèíöåâà
    #8
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Gallen!

    Íè÷åãî ïðèíöèïèàëüíî íîâîãî Âû èç ýòèõ èñòî÷íèêîâ íå ïî÷åðïíåòå. ×òî, îäíîé ìåñòíîé îáðàáîòêîé ïîðîé òÿæêî ñïðàâèòüñÿ ñ ýòèìè íåõîðîøèìè ãðèáàìè, Âû çíàåòå. ×òî ëîãè÷íî «â óïåðòûõ» ñëó÷àÿõ ñî÷åòàíèå ñèñòåìíîãî àíòèìèêîòèêà ñ ìåñòíûì Âàì ïîíÿòíî. Ñðàâíèòåëüíûå õàðàêòåðèñòèêè ðàçëè÷íûõ ïðîòèâîãðèáêîâûõ òàáëåòîê -äîñòàòî÷íî è íà ðóññêîì. À âîò ïî ïîâîäó «èññå÷åíèÿ ìÿãêèõ òêàíåé íîãòåâîãî ëîæà» òàì íåòó.

  9. DDimonn
    #9
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Ñ óäîâîëüñòâèåì, Gallen.



    "Surgical Care: Surgical approaches to OM treatment include surgical nail avulsion and matrixectomy by chemical or mechanical means.



    Chemical removal by using a urea compound should be reserved for patients with very thick nails or for those who may not tolerate mechanical avulsion.

    Removal of the nail plate should be considered an adjunctive treatment in patients undergoing oral therapy.

    A combination of oral, topical, and surgical therapy can increase efficacy and reduce cost."





    Õèðóðãè÷åñêîå ëå÷åíèå îíèõîìèêîçîâ (ÎÌ)



    Õèðóðãè÷åñêèå ìåòîäû ëå÷åíèÿ ÎÌ âêëþ÷àþò â ñåáÿ õèðóðãè÷åñêóþ àâóëüñèþ íîãòÿ è óäàëåíèå íîãòåâîãî ëîæà õèìè÷åñêèìè è ìåõàíè÷åñêèìè ñïîñîáàìè.



    Õèìè÷åñêîå óäàëåíèå ñ èñïîëüçîâàíèåì ñîåäèíåíèé ìî÷åâèíû äîëæíî áûòü èñïîëüçîâàíî òîëüêî äëÿ ïàöèåíòîâ ñ î÷åíü òîëñòûìè íîãòÿìè è ñ ïëîõîé òîëåðàíòíîñòüþ ê ìåõàíè÷åñêîé àâóëüñèè.



    Óäàëåíèå íîãòåâîé ïëàñòèíêè ÿâëÿåòñÿ âñïîìîãàòåëüíûì ìåòîäîì ëå÷åíèÿ äëÿ áîëüíûõ, ïîëó÷àþùèõ ïåðîðàëüíûå àíòèìèêîòè÷åñêèå ïðåïàðàòû. Êîìáèíàöèÿ ñèñòåìíîãî, ìåñòíîãî è õèðóðãè÷åñêîãî ëå÷åíèÿ óâåëè÷èâàåò ýôôåêòèâíîñòü è ñíèæàåò ñòîèìîñòü ëå÷åíèÿ ÎÌ.

    Ýòî ìíåíèå ïðîôåññîðà John Ratz (Medical College of Georgia). ( http://emedicine.com/derm/topic300.htm )



    Ñ äðóãîé ñòîðîíû, äîêòîð Elewski ñ÷èòàåò (Elewski B.E. 1998. Onychomycosis: Pathogenesis, Diagnosis, and Management. Clin. Micribiol. Rev. 11:415-429) ( http://www.doctorfungus.org/mycoses/human/other/onychomycosis_general.htm )



    "Surgical procedures

    Nail surgery is not recommended as a routine procedure for the treatment of onychomycosis. This is a painful and disfiguring procedure that should be reserved for isolated cases when there are either contraindications to use of systemic antifungals, or a drug-resistant fungal agent is present [598]."



    Õèðóðãè÷åñêîå ëå÷åíèå ïðè ÎÌ íå ðåêîìåíäóåòñÿ êàê ðóòèííàÿ ïðîöåäóðà. Ýòî áîëåçíåííàÿ è óðîäóþùàÿ ïðîöåäóðà.Îíà äîëæíà èñïîëüçîâàòüñÿ òîëüêî â èçîëèpîâàííûõ ñëó÷àÿõ, êîãäà ñèñòåìíîå àíòèôóíãàëüíîå ëå÷åíèå ïðîòèâîïîêàçàíî èëè ãðèáîê óñòîé÷èâ ê òàêîìó ëå÷åíèþ.





    P.S. Matrixectomy - óäàëåíèå íîãòåâîãî ëîæà

  10. lanny
    #10
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Ñïàñèáî óâàæàåìàÿ ßíà çà ïåðåâîä.



    Ñðàçó æå âîçíèêëà ïàðà óòî÷íÿþùèõ âîïðîñîâ.

    Õèðóðãè÷åñêîå ëå÷åíèå ïðè ÎÌ íå ðåêîìåíäóåòñÿ êàê ðóòèííàÿ ïðîöåäóðà

     êàêîì ñìûñëå ðóòèííàÿ? Èçîëèðîâàííî òîëüêî õèðóðãè÷åñêîå ëå÷åíèå?



    Ýòî áîëåçíåííàÿ è óðîäóþùàÿ ïðîöåäóðà.

    À âîò ýòî óæ è âîâñå íåïîíÿòíî. Áîëåçíåííàÿ òîëüêî íà ïåðâîé ïåðåâÿçêå, è òî åñëè ñïåøèòü. À óðîäîâàíèå íîãòåâîãî ëîæà (òî÷íåå ìàòðèêñà) ÷àùå ïðîèñõîäèò ïîä âîçäåéñòâèåì èìåííî ãðèáà, à íå ñêàëüïåëÿ. Íå òàê ëè?



    Ãëàâíî, ÷òî ÿ ïîíÿë - ýòî òî, ÷òî êîìáèíèðîâàííîå ëå÷åíèå ýòî íå ïëîä ìîåãî âîîáðàæåíèÿ.

    Ñëåäîâàòåëüíî ìîæíî ãîâîðèòü ñ íàøèìè äåðìàòîëîãàìè.

    À ìîæåò ïðîñòî ñàìîìó íàçíà÷àòü ñèñòåìíóþ è ìåñòíóþ òåðàïèþ + õèðóðãè÷åñêîå ëå÷åíèå? Òàê çíà÷èòåëüíî ïðîùå

    Åù¸ ðàç ñïàñèáî.

  11. âèòàëèê
    #11
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Íàäî äóìàòü, äîêòîð Ratz - õèðóðã, à äîêòîð Elewski - íåò. Îò ýòîãî è ðàçíèöà â ïîäõîäå.

    Ïîä ðóòèííîñòüþ ïðîöåäóðû äîêòîð Elewski, ÿ äóìàþ, ïîäðàçóìåâàåò ñèòóàöèþ, êîãäà åå äåëàþò âñåì è êàæäîìó.

     ñèñòåìíîé òåðàïèè, íà ìîé âçãëÿä, íè÷åãî ñëîæíîãî íåò. Äåðìàòîëîã äëÿ ýòîãî íåîáÿçàòåëåí. Ãëàâíîå, íå çàáûâàòü ïåðèîäè÷åñêè êîíòðîëèðîâàòü ôóíêöèîíàëüíûå ïðîáû ïå÷åíè; ïðèìåðíî ðàç â ìåñÿö. À òàê ÷åãî ïðîùå - Lamisil (Terbinafine HCl) 250mg 1 ðàç â äåíü. Íå ìåíüøå 6 íåäåëü äëÿ íîãòåé ðóê è 12 íåäåëü äëÿ íîãòåé íîã. Âîçìîæíûå ïîáî÷íûå äåéñòâèÿ - ãîëîâíûå áîëè, íàðóøåíèå âêóñà, ïîâûøåíèå óðîâíÿ ïå÷åíî÷íûõ ôåðìåíòîâ, êðàïèâíèöà (âñòðå÷àþòñÿ íå ÷àñòî). Íî àíàëèç êðîâè íà ÀËÒ, ÀÑÒ, áèëèðóáèí, àëêàëèí ôîñôàòàçó - äî è âî âðåìÿ ëå÷åíèÿ - ýòî MUST.



    Âñåãî äîáðîãî

  12. wicked
    #12
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Åù¸ ðàç ñïàñèáî çà êîðîòêèé è ÿñíûé îòâåò, ßíà.



    Èìåííî òàêîãî ÿ è æäàë.



    Âîïðîñ ìîæíî ñ÷èòàòü çàêðûòûì.

Êëèíèêà ñòîìàòîëîãèè è êîñìåòîëîãèè â Ìîñêâå

Ìåòêè ýòîé òåìû

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  • Âû ìîæåòå ñîçäàâàòü íîâûå òåìû
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