Çàðåãèñòðèðîâàòüñÿ

Ïîõîæèå òåìû

  1. Äèñáàêòåðèîç - áîëåçíü èëè âûìûñåë.
    îò Vladlen â ðàçäåëå Ïåäèàòð - âñå î äåòÿõ.
    Îòâåòîâ: 216
    : 20.12.2022, 18:53
  2. Äèñáàêòåðèîç - íå âûìûñåë, à ïå÷àëüíàÿ ðåàëüíîñòü
    îò dtm â ðàçäåëå Ïåäèàòð - âñå î äåòÿõ.
    Îòâåòîâ: 8
    : 01.09.2004, 19:30
  3. Ãèïåðòåðìèÿ – ïðàâäà è âûìûñåë.
    îò spatterdock â ðàçäåëå Îíêîëîãè÷åñêèå çàáîëåâàíèÿ, ðàê
    Îòâåòîâ: 3
    : 01.09.2004, 19:30
  4. Îòâåòîâ: 1
    : 09.08.2004, 11:44
  5. Äîêòîð, ýòî ïðàâäà èëè î÷åðåäíîé âûìûñåë? Áóêâû èìåíè âëèÿþò íà ñåêñóàëüíóþ...
    îò Êîñòÿ â ðàçäåëå Ñåêñ è ñåêñîïàòîëîãèÿ, îòíîøåíèÿ.
    Îòâåòîâ: 7
    : 21.05.2004, 16:20
  1. alexvod
    #61
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    ß âîò ÷èòàëà, ÷èòàëà ïðî äèñáàêòåðèîç, íî, êîãäà âûÿñíèëîñü, ÷òî àíàëèç íà äèñáàêòåðèîç íàäî áðàòü ñòåðèëüíûì àïëèêàòîðîì (ò.å. â ïîïó, ïðîøó ïðîùåíèÿ, íàäî çàñîâûâàòü ÑÒÅÐÈËÜÍÛÉ àïëèêàòîð, âèäèìî, ÷òîáû íå äàé Á-ã, êîíòàìèíàöèè íå áûëî), à ïîòîì ñîäåðæèìîå ýòîé ñàìîé ïîïû ïåðåíîñèòü íà ÑÒÅÐÈËÜÍÓÞ ñðåäó (â ÷àøêó Ïåòðè) ñ ñîáëþäåíèåì âñåõ ïðàâèë àñåïòèêè è ò.ï., òî âîïðîñ äëÿ ìåíÿ çàêðûëñÿ ñàì ñîáîé.

    ß áû äàæå îáñóæäàòü ýòó òåìó íå ñòàëà.(Óæ ïðîñòèòå ìåíÿ, ïðèìèòèâíîãî ïîëèêëèíè÷åñêîãî ïåäèàòðà

    dr.Ira

    Ýòà ïðîáëåìà ðåøàåòñÿ ïðîñòî. Áåðåòå àïëèêàòîð, ïèøèòå íàïðàâëåíèå: Èâàíîâ Àáðàì Ìàãîìåäîâè÷, 2 ãîäà, äèàãíîç: ýíòåðîêîëèò ïîä ?; è îòïðàâëÿåòå â ëàáîðàòîðèþ. Åñëè â ïóñòîì àïëèêàòîðå ïîäòâåðäèòüñÿ ýíòåðîêîëèò - ìåíÿéòå ëàáîðàòîðèþ, àïëèêàòîðû è ò ï. Åñëè Âàì íå ïîâåçëî ñ ëàáîðàòîðèåé (÷òî áûâàåò äîâîëüíî ÷àñòî), ýòî íå ïîâîä ñóäèòü î âñåé òåìå.

  2. alexvod
    #62
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Ïðåäëàãàþ ñíà÷àëà îïðåäåëèòüñÿ ñ òåðìèíîëîãèåé. (Ó ìåíÿ ñëîæèëîñü âïå÷àòëåíèå, ÷òî ïîä òåðìèíîì "äèñáàêòåðèîç" ðàçíûå âðà÷è ïîíèìàþò ðàçíûå ñîñòîÿíèÿ). Ó êîãî êàêèå êðèòåðèè ïîñòàíîâêè äèàãíîçà?

  3. Dobro
    #63
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Äèñáàêòåðèîç – ñèíäðîì ðàçäðàæåííîãî êèøå÷íèêà: ýññå-àíàëèç ïðîáëåìû.

    Â.Â.Âàñèëåíêî (Ìîñêîâñêàÿ ìåäèöèíñêàÿ àêàäåìèÿ èì. È.Ì. Ñå÷åíîâà)







    Îòûùè âñåìó íà÷àëî, è òû ìíîãîå ïîéìåøü (Ê. Ïðóòêîâ)

    Îáùàÿñü ñ ìíîãî÷èñëåííûìè ïàöèåíòàìè, êîíñóëüòèðóÿ ëþäåé ïî âîïðîñàì çäîðîâüÿ â Èíòåðíåòå, óáåæäàåøüñÿ, ÷òî ñàìûì ïîïóëÿðíûì è îáñóæäàåìûì ñ ñâÿçè ñ ïàòîëîãèåé ïèùåâàðèòåëüíîãî òðàêòà, áîëåçíÿìè êîæè, ðàçíîîáðàçíûìè ðàññòðîéñòâàìè äåòñêîãî âîçðàñòà ïîíÿòèåì ÿâëÿåòñÿ äèñáàêòåðèîç.

    Ïðàêòè÷åñêèå âðà÷è èùóò èíôîðìàöèþ î áîðüáå ñ ýòèì íåäóãîì è íå âñåãäà ìîãóò åå íàéòè. VI Ðîññèéñêàÿ ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãè÷åñêàÿ íåäåëÿ (îðãàíèçàòîðû ÐÃÀ, ÐÀÍ, ÐÀÌÍ è Ìèíçäðàâ Ðîññèè), ñîñòîÿâøàÿñÿ 23-27 îêòÿáðÿ 2000 ã., â ñâîåé î÷åíü íàñûùåííîé ïðîãðàììå (ïÿòü 8-÷àñîâûõ äíåé îäíîâðåìåííî â òðåõ ïîìåùåíèÿõ) íè â îäíîì äîêëàäå íå óïîìèíàåò î ïðîáëåìå äèñáàêòåðèîçà è åãî êîððåêöèè. Âïðî÷åì, êàê è ïÿòü ïðåäûäóùèõ.

    Ïðè÷èíà òîìó ïðîñòà: Ðîññèéñêàÿ ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãè÷åñêàÿ àññîöèàöèÿ ðàññìàòðèâàåò ëèøü êëèíè÷åñêè îáîñíîâàííûå âîïðîñû ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãèè. Ïîýòîìó ýòà ïðîáëåìà òðåáóåò äîïîëíèòåëüíîãî îñâåùåíèÿ.

    Ïîíÿòèå äèñáàêòåðèîçà òîëñòîé êèøêè êàê îñîáîãî õðîíè÷åñêîãî ñîñòîÿíèÿ, áîëåçíè, âåäóùåé ê ìíîãî÷èñëåííûì âíåêèøå÷íûì îñëîæíåíèÿì, êîòîðóþ íóæíî îáÿçàòåëüíî èñïðàâëÿòü èëè ëå÷èòü, "íàñàæäàÿ" îïðåäåëåííûå ìèêðîáû, ïðèñóùå òîëüêî îòå÷åñòâåííîé ìåäèöèíå.  ýòîì ìîæíî ëåãêî óáåäèòüñÿ. Îñóùåñòâëÿÿ ïîèñê â ìèðîâîé íàó÷íîé áàçå äàííûõ ïî ìåäèöèíå (Ìåäëàéí) ïî êëþ÷åâîìó ñëîâó "dysbacteriosis" (äèñáàêòåðèîç), ìû óçíàåì, ÷òî îíî ïðèñóòñòâóåò â çàãîëîâêàõ 257 íàó÷íûõ ðàáîò, îïóáëèêîâàííûõ ñ 1966 ïî 2000 ãîä, 250 èç íèõ - â ðóññêîÿçû÷íûõ ìåäèöèíñêèõ æóðíàëàõ, åùå 4 ïðèíàäëåæàò àâòîðàì èç ïðåæíåãî ñîöèàëèñòè÷åñêîãî ëàãåðÿ. Ðàáî÷èå ãèïîòåçû îò ÷àñòîãî óïîòðåáëåíèÿ ïðåâðàùàþòñÿ â àêñèîìû. Êàê çàìåòèë îäèí äîêòîð, ïðîáëåìà äèñáàêòåðèîçà îáðîñëà ó íàñ òàêèì îãðîìíûì êîëè÷åñòâîì ôàêòîâ, ÷òî âûãëÿäèò ïî÷òè íåïðèñòóïíîé äëÿ êðèòèêè. Íåñëîæíî äîãàäàòüñÿ, ÷òî è ñðåäè âðà÷åé íåò åäèíñòâà ìíåíèé îòíîñèòåëüíî òîãî, ÷òî æå òàêîå ýòîò äèñáàêòåðèîç. Ïî-ðàçíîìó âûñêàæóòñÿ ïåäèàòð, èììóíîëîã, ìèêðîáèîëîã, àëëåðãîëîã, èíôåêöèîíèñò. Áàêòåðèîëîã çàÿâèò, ÷òî äèñáàêòåðèîç - ïîíÿòèå ÷èñòî áàêòåðèîëîãè÷åñêîå.

    Òðóäíî îæèäàòü çàñëóæèâàþùèõ äîâåðèÿ äàííûõ î çíà÷åíèè íàñèëüñòâåííîé ëèêâèäàöèè òàê íàçûâàåìîãî äèñáàêòåðèîçà äëÿ çäîðîâüÿ ïîêà â ýòî ïîíÿòèå íå áóäåò âëîæåí õîòÿ áû åäèíûé è/èëè îïðåäåëåííûé ñìûñë. Ðîññèéñêàÿ ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãè÷åñêàÿ àññîöèàöèÿ èçáåãàåò èñïîëüçîâàíèÿ ýòîãî òåðìèíà; â Ìåæäóíàðîäíîé êëàññèôèêàöèè áîëåçíåé îí òàêæå íå óïîìèíàåòñÿ.

    Âñå ëîãè÷åñêèå ïîñòðîåíèÿ, ïîñâÿùåííûå äèñáàêòåðèîçó, áàçèðóþòñÿ íà ôóíäàìåíòå òðóäîåìêîãî (è äîðîãîñòîÿùåãî) èññëåäîâàíèÿ, êîòîðîå âûïîëíÿþò òåïåðü âî ìíîãèõ ëàáîðàòîðèÿõ. Ñóòü èõ, îäíàêî, çàêëþ÷àåòñÿ â òîì, ÷òî ðåçóëüòàòû èçó÷åíèÿ íåñêîëüêèõ âèäîâ áàêòåðèé â êóñî÷êå êàëà ìåõàíè÷åñêè ýêñòðàïîëèðóþòñÿ íà ñëîæíåéøóþ êèøå÷íóþ ìèêðîýêîëîãè÷åñêóþ ñèñòåìó (ñì. ïðèì. 2), ïðåäñòàâëåííóþ ìíîãî÷èñëåííûìè øòàììàìè áîëåå ÷åì 400 âèäîâ ìèêðîîðãàíèçìîâ. Ïðè ýòîì



    èçìåíåíèþ áàêòåðèàëüíîãî ñïåêòðà âîëþíòàðèñòñêè îòâîäèòñÿ ðîëü íå ñëåäñòâèÿ, íî ïðè÷èíû ðàçëè÷íûõ ñèñòåìíûõ (âíåêèøå÷íûõ) ðàññòðîéñòâ. Ýòî, åñëè ïðîâîäèòü àíàëîãèþ, - æàð êàê ïðè÷èíà ãðèïïà. Ïàöèåíòû ÷àñòî îáðàùàþòñÿ ñ ïðîñüáîé äàòü òðàêòîâêó òîìó èëè èíîìó àíàëèçó "íà äèñáàêòåðèîç", îäíàêî ñäåëàòü ýòî êîððåêòíî íåâîçìîæíî. Äåëî â òîì, ÷òî òàê íàçûâàåìûå "íîðìàëüíûå ïîêàçàòåëè" íåèçâåñòíî îòêóäà áåðóòñÿ: íå óäàåòñÿ íàéòè â ïîñëåäíèå ïîëâåêà ñåðüåçíûõ ðàáîò, â êîòîðûõ áû áûëè ãëóáîêî èññëåäîâàíû ìèêðîôëîðà ôåêàëèé è âëèÿíèå íà íåå âîçðàñòà, ïîëà, áåðåìåííîñòè, ïðèíèìàåìîé ïèùè è ëåêàðñòâ, òåêóùèõ áîëåçíåé, à òàêæå òåìïû âîçâðàùåíèÿ ê èñõîäíûì ïîêàçàòåëÿì ïîñëå ïðåêðàùåíèÿ äåéñòâèÿ âðåìåííûõ (óñòðàíèìûõ) ôàêòîðîâ.

    Ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãó, ïðèäåðæèâàþùåìóñÿ ñòðîãî íàó÷íûõ ôàêòîâ, íåâîçìîæíî äàòü êàêèå-ëèáî ðåêîìåíäàöèè ïî áîðüáå ñ "äèñáàêòåðèîçîì òîëñòîé êèøêè". Íåïðèÿòíûå îùóùåíèÿ â âèäå ïîâûøåííîãî ãàçîîáðàçîâàíèÿ, áóðëåíèÿ â êèøå÷íèêå è ò.ä., âûçûâàåìûå èçáûòî÷íûì ðîñòîì êèøå÷íîé ôëîðû, â áîëüøèíñòâå ñëó÷àåâ ëåãêî ïîäàâëÿþòñÿ äàâíî èçâåñòíûìè êèøå÷íûìè àíòèñåïòèêàìè, êîòîðûå ñàìè ïî÷òè íå âñàñûâàþòñÿ è ñîîòâåòñòâåííî ïðàêòè÷åñêè íå âûçûâàþò ïîáî÷íûõ ýôôåêòîâ. Ýòî ïðåæäå âñåãî îòå÷åñòâåííûå ëåêàðñòâà ñóëüãèí è ôòàëàçîë.

     ñëîæíûõ ñëó÷àÿõ ïðèáåãàþò ê äðóãèì ñðåäñòâàì, íàïðèìåð ê íåîìèöèíó ïðè äåêîìïåíñèðîâàííîì öèððîçå ïå÷åíè. Ïðèâåðæåíöû æå ãèïîòåçû äèñáàêòåðèîçà ðåêîìåíäóþò ðåãóëèðîâàòü ðàâíîâåñèå êèøå÷íîé ôëîðû ïðèåìîì âíóòðü áèîëîãè÷åñêèõ, áàêòåðèàëüíûõ ïðåïàðàòîâ.

    Äëèíà ïèùåâàðèòåëüíîãî òðàêòà âçðîñëîãî ÷åëîâåêà äîñòèãàåò 6 ì, è âîçíèêàåò çàêîííûé âîïðîñ: íå ïðîùå ëè äëÿ çàñåëåíèÿ íåñêîëüêèõ ïîñëåäíèõ äåñÿòêîâ ñàíòèìåòðîâ êèøêè ââîäèòü "ïîëåçíûå áàêòåðèè" â êëèçìå, à íå ÷åðåç ðîò, ïîäâåðãàÿ èõ âîçäåéñòâèþ ñëþíû, ñîëÿíîé êèñëîòû æåëóäêà, æåë÷è, ïàíêðåàòè÷åñêîãî è êèøå÷íîãî ñîêîâ? Ïî-âèäèìîìó, ýòî óäîáíåå (è âûãîäíåå) ïðîèçâîäèòåëÿì ñîîòâåòñòâóþùèõ ñðåäñòâ.

    Ðîëü òîëñòîé êèøêè â ïîääåðæàíèè çäîðîâüÿ îáñóæäàåòñÿ íå òîëüêî â ïîñëåäíèå äâà äåñÿòèëåòèÿ. Òàê, èçâåñòíî ïðåäëîæåíèå È.È. Ìå÷íèêîâà äàæå óäàëÿòü ïðÿìóþ êèøêó äëÿ ïîääåðæàíèÿ çäîðîâüÿ è äîëãîëåòèÿ (ñì. ïðèì. 3). Îðòîäîêñàëüíûå ïîñëåäîâàòåëè ýòîãî ó÷åíèÿ ÷àñòî ñîáèðàþòñÿ íà ðîäèíå íîáåëåâñêîãî ëàóðåàòà. Ðîëè ëàêòîáàêòåðèé â ðåàáèëèòàöèè äóõîâíîãî è ôèçè÷åñêîãî çäîðîâüÿ ëþäåé áûë ïîñâÿùåí "êðóãëûé ñòîë", îðãàíèçîâàííûé â Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðãå Ñîâðåìåííûì ìå÷íèêîâñêèì äâèæåíèåì.  íåì ïðèíÿëè ó÷àñòèå áàêòåðèîëîãè, ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãè è íåñêîëüêî çàâåäóþùèõ ïîëèêëèíèêàìè, ñîîáùèëè "Ìåäèöèíñêèå âåäîìîñòè" (ñì. ïðèì. 4) - åæåìåñÿ÷íîå ïðîôåññèîíàëüíîå èçäàíèå äëÿ ìåäèöèíñêèõ ðàáîòíèêîâ Ñàíêò-Ïåòåðáóðãà è Ëåíèíãðàäñêîé îáëàñòè (ñì. ïðèì. 5). Ó÷åíèå î äèñáàêòåðèîçå òåñíî ñâÿçàíî ñ ïðåäñòàâëåíèåì î íåîáõîäèìîñòè ïîñòîÿííî ñëåäèòü çà "÷èñòîòîé" òîëñòîé êèøêè.





    Î÷èñòêà êèøå÷íèêà (ÎÊ), íà ïñåâäîíàó÷íîì ÿçûêå ãèäðîêîëîíîòåðàïèÿ, - ïðîöåäóðà, ïðè êîòîðîé çíà÷èòåëüíûå êîëè÷åñòâà æèäêîñòè (íåñêîëüêî ëèòðîâ) ââîäÿò ÷åðåç ïðÿìóþ êèøêó â êèøå÷íèê, ÷òîáû åãî ïðîìûòü è óäàëèòü ñîäåðæèìîå ("øëàêè&quot. ÎÊ îòëè÷àåòñÿ îò îáû÷íîé êëèçìû: ïðè ïðîñòîé êëèçìå âëèâàþò ãîðàçäî ìåíüøèé îáúåì æèäêîñòè è òîëüêî â ïðÿìóþ êèøêó. Æèäêîñòè, èñïîëüçóåìûå äëÿ ÎÊ, ìîãóò âêëþ÷àòü êîôå, íàñòîè è îòâàðû òðàâ, ôåðìåíòû, äðóãèå èíãðåäèåíòû.

    Ñòîðîííèêè ýòîé ïðîöåäóðû äåêëàðèðóþò, ÷òî "âñå áîëåçíè è ñìåðòü íà÷èíàþòñÿ â êèøå÷íèêå", ÷òî ÎÊ "î÷èùàåò" îðãàíèçì, ÷òî ðåãóëÿðíàÿ î÷èñòêà íåîáõîäèìà äëÿ ïîääåðæàíèÿ õîðîøåãî çäîðîâüÿ. Îòìåòèì ñðàçó, ÷òî âñå ýòè ïîëîæåíèÿ ÿâëÿþòñÿ ëîæíûìè.

    Åñëè îòíîñèòåëåüíî íåäàâíî ïðè íàëè÷èè ó ïàöèåíòà ñèìïòîìîâ îáùåé ñëàáîñòè è èíòîêñèêàöèè ïðåæäå âñåãî ðåêîìåíäîâàëè ñàíèðîâàòü ïîëîñòü ðòà, ëå÷èòü êàðèîçíûå çóáû, òî òåïåðü íåêîòîðûå òåðàïåâòû âèäÿò ïðè÷èíó ýòèõ çîë â ïðîòèâîïîëîæíîì êîíöå ïèùåâàðèòåëüíîãî òðàêòà.

    Ïî÷åìó âðà÷è îáùåé ïðàêòèêè íå èíòåðåñóþòñÿ ïðîäóêòàìè æèçíåäåÿòåëüíîñòè ìèêðîáíîé ôëîðû ïîëîñòè ðòà, êîòîðûå, êàçàëîñü áû, ìîãóò âñàñûâàòüñÿ ìèíóÿ ïå÷åíü â íåïîñðåäñòâåííîé áëèçîñòè ê ãîëîâíîìó ìîçãó? Ïî÷åìó àëëåðãîïóëüìîíîëîãàì íå èíòåðåñíà ôëîðà ëèìôîèäíîãî ãëîòî÷íîãî êîëüöà è òðàõåè ó àñòìàòèêîâ? Ïî÷åìó äåðìàòîëîãîâ íå áåñïîêîèò ôëîðà êîæè è ïîòîâîé æèäêîñòè? Ïî÷åìó íåêîòîðûå âðà÷è ïðèñòàëüíî èíòåðåñóþòñÿ èìåííî ìèêðîáàìè, æèâóùèìè â êàëå?

    Âåðîÿòíûé îòâåò ìîæåò áûòü ñëåäóþùèì. Êîíöåïöèÿ, íå èìåþùàÿ íàó÷íî îáîñíîâàííîãî ïîäòâåðæäåíèÿ, ìîæåò ñòàòü àâòîðèòåòíîé ïðîñòî áëàãîäàðÿ äëèòåëüíîìó ñóùåñòâîâàíèþ, îñâÿùåíèþ èñòîðè÷åñêîé òðàäèöèåé.

    Èäåÿ î òîì, ÷òî âñå áîëåçíè è ñìåðòü íà÷èíàþòñÿ â êèøå÷íèêå - îäíî èç ñàìûõ ñòàðûõ çàáëóæäåíèé îòíîñèòåëüíî çäîðîâüÿ, èçâåñòíûõ ÷åëîâå÷åñòâó.

    Äðåâíèå åãèïòÿíå ñâÿçàëè ôåêàëèè ñ ðàçëîæåíèåì, à ðàçëîæåíèå - ñî ñìåðòüþ. ×òî çàñòàâèëî èõ ïèñàòü â äðåâíèõ ïàïèðóñàõ, ÷òî ðàçëîæåíèå ÷åëîâåêà íà÷èíàåòñÿ ñ àíóñà? Åãèïòÿíå âëàäåëè ìàñòåðñòâîì ñîõðàíåíèÿ òðóïîâ. Ïðè áàëüçàìèðîâàíèè îíè íàáëþäàëè áàêòåðèàëüíîå ãíèåíèå (íîðìàëüíûé ïîñìåðòíûé ïðîöåññ âíóòðè êèøå÷íèêà). Ïîýòîìó óäàëåíèå æåëóäêà è êèøå÷íèêà ñòàëî åñòåñòâåííîé ÷àñòüþ ïðîöåññà áàëüçàìèðîâàíèÿ.

    Ëþáîïûòíî, ÷òî îäèí èç ñåìè ìåäèöèíñêèõ ïàïèðóñîâ è 81 èç 900 èçâåñòíûõ äðåâíååãèïåòñêèõ ìåäèöèíñêèõ ïðåäïèñàíèé ïîñâÿùåíû èñêëþ÷èòåëüíî çàäíåìó ïðîõîäó. Ñâÿçü ìåæäó óïîòðåáëÿåìîé ïèùåé è ñîñòîÿíèåì ôåêàëèé íàïðàøèâàëàñü ñàìà ñîáîé. Çàáîòû î ïðîôèëàêòèêå ðàçëîæåíèÿ ñòàëè óïðàâëÿòü ïîâñåäíåâíîé æèçíüþ æèòåëåé Äðåâíåãî Åãèïòà.

    Ãåðîäîò îòìå÷àë, ÷òî åãèïòÿíå â òå÷åíèå òðåõ ïîñëåäîâàòåëüíûõ äíåé åæåìåñÿ÷íî î÷èùàþò ñåáÿ, ñîõðàíÿÿ çäîðîâüå ïîñðåäñòâîì ðâîòíûõ ñðåäñòâ è ñëàáèòåëüíûõ, áóäó÷è óâåðåííûìè, ÷òî âñå áîëåçíè ïðèáûâàþò â ëþäåé èç ïðîäóêòîâ ïèòàíèÿ. Õîòÿ áîëåå ÷åì 700 ïîëîæåíèé äðåâíååãèïåòñêîé ôàðìàêîïåè îêàçàëèñü áåñïîëåçíûìè ñ òî÷êè çðåíèÿ ñîâðåìåííîé íàóêè, îíà òåì íå ìåíåå ñîäåðæèò ìíîãî ýôôåêòèâíûõ ñðåäñòâ, ñïîñîáíûõ âûçâàòü äèàðåþ.

    Ê XIX ñòîëåòèþ èç ýòèõ âîççðåíèé ïîñòåïåííî âûêðèñòàëëèçèðîâàëàñü ãèïîòåçà êèøå÷íûõ òîêñèíîâ,



    è îíà ñòàëà î÷åíü ïîïóëÿðíîé. Ãëàâíàÿ åå ìûñëü ñîñòîÿëà â òîì, ÷òî ÿäû êèøå÷íûõ áàêòåðèé, âûçûâàþùèõ ãíèåíèå, ïðîíèêàþò â îðãàíèçì ñêâîçü êèøå÷íóþ ñòåíêó. Ïîýòîìó ñëåäóåò èçáåãàòü çàïîðîâ è âñÿ÷åñêè èõ ïðåäóïðåæäàòü. Ìíîãî÷èñëåííûå ãóðó îò "îçäîðîâëåíèÿ", ðàñïðîñòðàíèâøèåñÿ âî âñåõ åâðîïåéñêèõ ñòðàíàõ, ïðåäëîæèëè ìàññó ðàçíîîáðàçíûå ðåöåïòîâ ÎÊ. Óæå òîãäà áûëî ïðîâîçãëàøåíî, ÷òî óïîòðåáëåíèå êåôèðà (éîãóðòà) ôîðìèðóåò "áëàãîïðèÿòíóþ" êèøå÷íóþ ôëîðó, à îòðóáè áûëè ïðåäëîæåíû â êà÷åñòâå ãðóáîé ïèùè äëÿ óëó÷øåíèÿ î÷èñòêè ñòåíîê êèøêè. Ïîãîâîðêà "îäíî ÿáëîêî â äåíü - è íå íóæíî äîêòîðîâ" ïîÿâèëàñü èìåííî òîãäà èç ìûñëè î öåííîñòè ãðóáîé ïèùè, à íå èç ïðåäñòàâëåíèé î âèòàìèíàõ.

  4. Dobro
    #64
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Îäíîâðåìåííî ðàçìíîæèëèñü "ãèäðîïàòû", êîòîðûå "îçäîðîâëÿëè" ëþäåé íàçíà÷åíèåì ÷ðåçìåðíûõ âîäíûõ íàãðóçîê ÷åðåç ðîò ñ òåì ÷òîáû ïðîìûòü ïèùåâîé êàíàë ñâåðõó. Õèðóðã Äæ.Êåëëîãã ðàçðàáîòàë è ïðèìåíÿë îïåðàöèîííóþ ìåòîäèêó, âûçûâàâøóþ óñêîðåííîå äâèæåíèå ïèùåâîãî êîìêà ïî êèøå÷íèêó. Íà îñíîâå ïîïóëÿðèçàöèè èäåè "ïðàâèëüíîé" ôóíêöèè êèøå÷íèêà ñòàëè ðàçâèâàòüñÿ ïðîèçâîäñòâî ñëàáèòåëüíûõ ñðåäñòâ è òîðãîâëÿ èìè. Ñ îïðåäåëåííîé çàäåæêîé ýòîò áóì ïðèøåë è â íàøó ñòðàíó, à òåïåðü åùå áîëåå ðàñïðîñòðàíÿåòñÿ áëàãîäàðÿ òåëåâèäåíèþ.

    Ñåãîäíÿ ìû ïîíèìàåì äîñòàòî÷íî ÿñíî çíà÷åíèå â ïèòàíèè äèåòè÷åñêèõ âîëîêîí, ãèäðàòàöèè, è ò.ä. Ãðàìîòíûå âðà÷è òàêæå çíàþò, ÷òî âñå ýòî íå èìååò íèêàêîãî îòíîøåíèÿ ê êèøå÷íûì òîêñèíàì.

     ïåðâîé ÕÕ âåêà áûëî ïðîâåäåíî äîñòàòî÷íî íàó÷íûõ èññëåäîâàíèé, äîêàçàâøèõ áåñïîëåçíîñòü è äàæå âðåäíîñòü ÎÊ, è íà ýòîì ìîæíî áûëî áû íå îñòàíàâëèâàòüñÿ. Íî äàæå â ïîñëåäíèå äåñÿòèëåòèÿ ðåãèñòðèðîâàëèñü ñëó÷àè íàðóøåíèé öåëîñòíîñòè êèøå÷íîé ñòåíêè ñ ðàçâèòèåì ïåðèòîíèòà è ñåïñèñà (çàðàæåíèÿ êðîâè), ñìåðòè âñëåäñòâèå íàðóøåíèé ñîñòîÿíèÿ ýëåêòðîëèòîâ, òÿæåëûõ îáîñòðåíèé ÿçâåííîãî êîëèòà ïðè ÎÊ. Ñ ðàñïðîñòðàíåíèåì â íàøåé ñòðàíå ãèäðîêîëîíîòåðàïèè (èëè îðîøåíèÿ òîëñòîé êèøêè) êàê ìåäèöèíñêîé ïðîöåäóðû òàêèå ñëó÷àè, âèäìî, áóäóò íàáëþäàòüñÿ è âïðåäü. Äðåâíååãèïåòñêàÿ èäåÿ, òàêèì îáðàçîì, ïðîäîëæàåò ðàçâèâàòüñÿ. Ó íàñ îíà òðàíñôîðìèðîâàëàñü ïðåèìóùåñòâåííî â ìåäèöèíñêîå ó÷åíèå î äèñáàêòåðèîçå.  ÑØÀ îíà ïðèíÿëà åùå áîëåå ïðè÷óäëèâûå ôîðìû. Òàê, ãèäðîêîëîíîòåðàïèÿ ñòàëà ïîïóëÿðíà â îïðåäåëåííûõ êðóãàõ êàê ôåòèø çäîðîâüÿ, îáùåé ÷èñòîòû. Îñîáåííî ñðåäè ãîìîñåêñóàëèñòîâ: ÎÊ ïðîâîäÿò â ñïåöèàëüíûõ ìàññàæíûõ êàáèíåòàõ ñ ýðîòè÷åñêîé íàïðàâëåííîñòüþ. Åñòåñòâåííî, ÷òî âñå ýòî ïîäîãðåâàåòñÿ íåêèìè ôèíàíñîâûìè èíòåðåñàìè.

    Äëÿ íàñ ïðåäñòàâëÿåò èíòåðåñ äðóãîå ÿâëåíèå àìåðèêàíñêîé äåéñòâèòåëüíîñòè: îáðàçîâàíèå àâòîðèòåòíîé íåêîììåð÷åñêîé îðãàíèçàöèè "Íàöèîíàëüíûé ñîâåò ïðîòèâ ìîøåííè÷åñòâà â ñôåðå çäîðîâüÿ" (The National Council Against Health Fraud). Ýòà îðãàíèçàöèÿ äàåò íåäâóñìûñëåííûé îòïîð ïîäîáíîé "íàðîäíî-íàó÷íîé ìåäèöèíå".

    Êîììåíòàðèé. Ðåäàêöèîííàÿ êîëëåãèÿ "Ðîññèéñêîãî æóðíàëà ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãèè, ãåïàòîëîãèè, êîëîïðîêòîëîãèè" ñî÷ëà ñòàòüþ Â.Â. Âàñèëåíêî, îçàáî÷åííîãî ïðîäîëæàþùèìñÿ äî ñèõ ïîð èñïîëüçîâàíèåì â êðóãó ïðàêòè÷åñêèõ âðà÷åé òåðìèíà "äèñáàêòåðèîç êèøå÷íèêà", âåñüìà àêòóàëüíîé.  ñâÿçè ñ ýòèì ðåøèëà äàòü ê ýòîé ñòàòüå êðàòêèé êîììåíòàðèé.

    Ñîãëàøàÿñü ñ àâòîðîì ñòàòüè î áåçäîêàçàòåëüíîñòè ìíîãèõ ïîëîæåíèé, êàñàþùèõñÿ êîíöåïöèè "äèñáàêòåðèîçà êèøå÷íèêà", ðåäêîëëåãèÿ õîòåëà áû íàïîìíèòü, ÷òî áîëüøèíñòâî âåäóùèõ ðîññèéñêèõ ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãîâ åùå íåñêîëüêî ëåò íàçàä îñóäèëî ïðàêòèêó øèðîêîãî èñïîëüçîâàíèÿ äèàãíîçà "äèñáàêòåðèîç êèøå÷íèêà" êàê ïîðî÷íóþ, ïîñêîëüêó ýòî ïîíÿòèå íå èìååò ïðèñóùåé åìó êëèíè÷åñêîé ñîñòàâëÿþùåé. Äèàãíîñòèêà "äèñáàêòåðèîçà", îñíîâàííàÿ íà ìàëîèíôîðìàòèâíûõ ðåçóëüòàòàõ áàêòåðèîëîãè÷åñêîãî èññëåäîâàíèÿ êàëà, íå èìååò íàäëåæàùåé âåðèôèêàöèè, à âñå ñâèäåòåëüñòâà î âûñîêîé ýôôåêòèâíîñòè àíòèáèîòèêîâ è ïðîáèîòèêîâ ÷àùå âñåãî áàçèðóþòñÿ íà ñóáúåêòèâíîé îöåíêå, à íå íà ïðèíöèïàõ äîêàçàòåëüíîé ìåäèöèíû (ñì. "Äèàãíîñòèêà è ëå÷åíèå ñèíäðîìà ðàçäðàæåííîé êèøêè (Ìàòåðèàëû "êðóãëîãî ñòîëà&quot//Ðîñ. æóðí. ãàñòðîýíòåðîë., ãåïàòîë., êîëîïðîêòîë. -1999. -Ò.9, ¹ 2 -Ñ.61-69).

    Ê ñîæàëåíèþ, òî÷êà çðåíèÿ î òîì, ÷òî êîðíè ìíîãèõ ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãè÷åñêèõ çàáîëåâàíèé ñëåäóåò èñêàòü â èçìåíåíèè ñîñòàâà ìèêðîôëîðû òîëñòîé êèøêè, êàê ïîêàçûâàåò ñòàòüÿ Â.Â. Âàñèëåíêî, îñòàåòñÿ ïîïóëÿðíîé ñðåäè ðÿäà âðà÷åé è áîëüíûõ.  ëó÷øåì ñëó÷àå ýòîò ïîäõîä âûðàæàåòñÿ â äëèòåëüíîì (è ÷àùå âñåãî áåñïîëåçíîì) íàçíà÷åíèè òàê íàçûâàåìûõ ïðîáèîòèêîâ (êîëè- è áèôèäóìáàêòåðèíà è äð.), â õóäøåì - â áåñêîíòðîëüíîì ïðèìåíåíèè àíòèáèîòèêîâ ñ ðèñêîì ðàçâèòèÿ ñåðüåçíûõ îñëîæíåíèé, â òîì ÷èñëå è êèøå÷íûõ.

    Òå ñèìïòîìû, êîòîðûå îáû÷íî ïðèïèñûâàþòñÿ äèñáàêòåðèîçó êèøå÷íèêà (ïåðèîäè÷åñêèå ñõâàòêîîáðàçíûå áîëè ïî õîäó òîëñòîé êèøêè, ìåòåîðèçì, ðàññòðîéñòâà ñòóëà ñ íàêëîííîñòüþ ê ïîíîñàì, çàïîðàì èëè èõ ÷åðåäîâàíèåì), â äåéñòâèòåëüíîñòè ñëóæàò ïðîÿâëåíèåì ñèíäðîìà ðàçäðàæåííîãî êèøå÷íèêà (ðåæå - ñêðûòî ïðîòåêàþùåé ëàêòàçíîé íåäîñòàòî÷íîñòè) - çàáîëåâàíèÿ, ïðèâåäåííîãî â Ìåæäóíàðîäíîé êëàññèôèêàöèè áîëåçíåé 10-ãî ïåðåñìîòðà è ñîäåðæàùåãî ñëåäóþùèå ðóáðèêè (ðóáðèêà "äèñáàêòåðèîç êèøå÷íèêà", ê ñëîâó, â ÌÊÁ-10 îòñóòñòâóåò).

    Ðóáðèêè ñèíäðîìà ðàçäðàæåííîãî êèøå÷íèêà â ÌÊÁ-10:

    Ê58 Ñèíäðîì ðàçäðàæåííîãî êèøå÷íèêà

    Ê58.0 Ñèíäðîì ðàçäðàæåííîãî êèøå÷íèêà ñ äèàðååé

    Ê58.9 Ñèíäðîì ðàçäðàæåííîãî êèøå÷íèêà áåç äèàðåè

    Ê59 Äðóãèå ôóíêöèîíàëüíûå êèøå÷íûå íàðóøåíèÿ

    Ê59.0 Çàïîð

    Ê59.1 Ôóíêöèîíàëüíàÿ äèàðåÿ

    Ê59.2 Íåâðîãåííàÿ âîçáóäèìîñòü êèøå÷íèêà, íå êëàññèôèöèðîâàííàÿ â äðóãèõ ðóáðèêàõ

    Ñèíäðîì ðàçäðàæåííîãî êèøå÷íèêà - ñ ó÷åòîì åãî øèðîêîé ðàñïðîñòðàíåííîñòè â ïîïóëÿöèè (30-40%) - ÿâëÿåòñÿ â ñîâðåìåííîé ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãèè ïðåäìåòîì ñàìîãî ïðèñòàëüíîãî âíèìàíèÿ.

    Ïîñëåäíèå "Ðèìñêèå êðèòåðèè II" ôóíêöèîíàëüíûõ ðàññòðîéñòâ êèøå÷íèêà (1999), ïðåäëîæåííûå Ìåæäóíàðîäíîé ðàáî÷åé ãðóïïîé ïî èçó÷åíèþ ôóíêöèîíàëüíûõ ðàññòðîéñòâ æåëóäî÷íî-êèøå÷íîãî òðàêà, âêëþ÷àþò ñëåäóþùèå ðóáðèêè:

    Ñ. Ôóíêöèîíàëüíûå êèøå÷íûå ðàññòðîéñòâà

    Ñ1. Ñèíäðîì ðàçäðàæåííîãî êèøå÷íèêà

    Ñ2. Ôóíêöèîíàëüíûé ìåòåîðèçì

    Ñ3. Ôóíêöèîíàëüíûå çàïîðû

    Ñ4. Ôóíêöèîíàëüíàÿ äèàðåÿ

    Ìàòåðèàëû, îñâåùàþùèå îñîáåííîñòè ïàòîãåíåçà, äèàãíîñòèêè è ëå÷åíèÿ ñèíäðîìà ðàçäðàæåííîãî êèøå÷íèêà, ñèñòåìàòè÷åñêè ïóáëèêóþòñÿ (è áóäóò ïóáëèêîâàòüñÿ âïðåäü) â "Ðîññèéñêîì æóðíàëå ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãèè, ãåïàòîëîãèè, êîëîïðîêòîëîãèè". Äåéñòâèòåëüíûå íàðóøåíèÿ êà÷åñòâåííîãî è êîëè÷åñòâåííîãî ñîñòàâà ìèêðîôëîðû êèøå÷íèêà, â ÷àñòíîñòè ïîâûøåíèå ñîäåðæàíèÿ áàêòåðèé â òîíêîé êèøêå ñ íîðìàëüíûõ 104/ìë (òîùàÿ êèøêà) äî 106/ìë è âûøå, èìåíóþòñÿ â ñîâðåìåííîé ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãèè ñèíäðîìîì èçáûòî÷íîãî ðîñòà áàêòåðèé (bacterial overgrowth syndrome).

    Ýòîò ñèíäðîì ðàçâèâàåòñÿ â ñèëó ñòðîãî îïðåäåëåííûõ ïðè÷èí (íàïðèìåð, ðåçåêöèÿ èëåîöåêàëüíîãî êëàïàíà ñ ïîñëåäóþùèì çàáðîñîì ñîäåðæèìîãî òîëñòîé êèøêè â òîíêóþ, ðåçåêöèÿ êèøêè ñ íàëîæåíèåì àíàñòîìîçîâ áîê â áîê, æåëóäî÷íî-òîëñòîêèøå÷íûå èëè òîíêî-òîëñòîêèøå÷íûå ñâèùè, ñòðèêòóðû êèøå÷íèêà ïðè áîëåçíè Êðîíà, ðàäèàöèîííîì ýíòåðèòå è ò.ä.), ïðè êîòîðûõ ñîäåðæèìîå òîëñòîé êèøêè ïîñòóïàåò â òîíêóþ èëè æå íàðóøàåòñÿ ïðîïóëüñèâíàÿ ìîòîðèêà òîíêîé êèøêè.

    Ñèíäðîì èçáûòî÷íîãî ðîñòà áàêòåðèé èìååò ÷åòêî âûðàæåííóþ êëèíè÷åñêóþ ñîñòàâëÿþùóþ - äèàðåÿ ñ âîçìîæíûìè ïðîÿâëåíèÿìè ìàëüàáñîðáöèè. Îí äèàãíîñòèðóåòñÿ íà îñíîâàíèè ðåçóëüòàòîâ äûõàòåëüíîãî òåñòà ñ Í2, ïðîâîäèìîãî ñ ëàêòóëîçîé, à òàêæå ðåçóëüòàòîâ áàêòåðèîëîãè÷åñêîãî èññëåäîâàíèÿ ïîñåâà äóîäåíàëüíîãî àñïèðàòà ñ ïîäñ÷åòîì ñîäåðæàíèÿ ìèêðîîðãàíèçìîâ. Ëå÷åíèå ñèíäðîìà èçáûòî÷íîãî ðîñòà áàêòåðèé ïðåäïîëàãàåò â ïåðâóþ î÷åðåäü âîçäåéñòâèå íà îñíîâíîå çàáîëåâàíèå, ïîñëóæèâøåå ïðè÷èíîé åãî ðàçâèòèÿ.

    Ïóáëèêóÿ ýòó èíòåðåñíóþ, íåñòàíäàðòíî íàïèñàííóþ ñòàòüþ, ðåäàêöèîííàÿ êîëëåãèÿ "Ðîññèéñêîãî æóðíàëà ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãèè, ãåïàòîëîãèè, êîëîïðîêòîëîãèè" âûðàæàåò íàäåæäó, ÷òî îíà ïîìîæåò ó÷åíûì è ïðàêòè÷åñêèì âðà÷àì, ïîêà åùå îñòàþùèìñÿ â ïëåíó ïðåæíèõ ïðåäñòàâëåíèé î "äèñáàêòåðèîçå êèøå÷íèêà" ïåðåñìîòðåòü ñâîè âçãëÿäû íà ïðè÷èíû âîçíèêíîâåíèÿ ó áîëüíûõ êèøå÷íûõ ðàññòðîéñòâ, ÷òî ïîçâîëèò óëó÷øèòü ðåçóëüòàòû èõ ëå÷åíèÿ.

    Îò àâòîðà. Ñî âðåìåíè îïóáëèêîâàíèÿ ñòàòüè ïîÿâèëèñü íîâûå äàííûå ïî ýòîé ïðîáëåìå.

    1. Îêîëîíàó÷íûå èññëåäîâàíèÿ "äèñáàêòåðèîçà ñ àóòîèíòîêñèêàöèåé", êàê òåïåðü ïðèíÿòî â ñðåäå îáðàçîâàííûõ ëþäåé íàçûâàòü ïîíîñ/çàïîð ñ èñïóñêàíèåì âåòðîâ, óñïåøíî ïðîäîëæàþòñÿ ñ ïðèìåíåíèåì ñîâðåìåííîé àïïàðàòóðû. (Äðóãàÿ çàãàäî÷íàÿ áîëåçíü, âñòðå÷àþùàÿñÿ òîëüêî ó ãîðîäñêîãî íàñåëåíèÿ Ðîññèè, - "îñòåîõîíäðîç&quot Åñòåñòâåííî, ýòî âûçûâàåò åùå áîëüøåå óâàæåíèå ó ïðîôàíîâ. Óæå ïðåäëîæåíî èñïîëüçîâàíèå ôîðìóëÿðà "Ìèêðîáíûé ìåòàáîëèòíûé ïàñïîðò ôåêàëèé", ñîñòàâëÿåìîãî íà îñíîâå ãàçîæèäêîñòíîé õðîìàòîãðàôèè ýòèõ ñàìûõ âåòðîâ. Ñòðàæäóùèå ïàöèåíòû òåïåðü ìîãóò íà àíàëèç ñäàâàòüíå íå êàë, à ãàçû. Íå íàçûâàþ àäðåñ ìîñêîâñêîãî ìåäèöèíñêîãî öåíòðà, ÷òîáû íå ñîçäàâàòü åìó ëèøíåé ðåêëàìû.

    2. Îáíàðóæèëèñü èñòîðè÷åñêèå äàííûå î òîì, ÷òî íå òîëüêî îòå÷åñòâåííûå ïàöèåíòû çíà÷èòåëüíî ïîñòðàäàëè îò ïðèâåðæåíöåâ ãèïîòåçû î êèøå÷íûõ ÿäàõ. Òàê, èçâåñòíûé ïàïèðóñ Ýáåðñà (åãèïåòñêèé ôàðìàöåâòè÷åñêèé ïàïèðóñ XVI âåêà äî í.ý.) áûë íàñòîëüíîé êíèãîé ëè÷íîãî âðà÷à Ëþäîâèêà XV - êîðîëÿ, ôàêòè÷åñêè ðàçâàëèâøåãî âåëèêîå ãîñóäàðñòâî.

    À ìå÷íèêîâñêàÿ ìûñëü î âðåäå ñàìîãî íàëè÷èÿ òîëñòîé êèøêè áûëà âçÿòà íà âîîðóæåíèå â Âåëèêîáðèòàíèè: òîëüêî îäèí õèðóðã êðóïíîãî ìåäèöèíñêîãî öåíòðà London's Guy's Hospital ñýð Â.À. Ëåéí (Sir William Arbuthnot Lane) ìåæäó 1900 è 1920 ãîäàìè óäàëèë òîëñòóþ êèøêó ó ñîòåí àíãëè÷àí ñ çàïîðàìè.

    3. Íàêîíåö, íàó÷íî-îáîñíîâàííàÿ ìåäèöèíà ïîëó÷èëà â 2000 ãîäó â ðåçóëüòàòå ïðîâåäåíèÿ øèðîêîìàñøòàáíîãî èññëåäîâàíèÿ íåïðåëîæíîå ïîäòâåðæäåíèå òîãî, ÷òî âûñîêîå óïîòðåáëåíèå ïèùåâûõ (ðàñòèòåëüíûõ) âîëîêîí, îòðóáåé âîâñå íå ïðåäóïðåæäàåò ðàçâèòèå ðàêà êèøå÷íèêà. Ýòîò ôàêò ñåé÷àñ àêòèâíî îáñóæäàåòñÿ, îí çàñòàâèò ïî-íîâîìó âçãëÿíóòü íà ïðîáëåìó ìíîãèõ äèåòîëîãîâ, îíêîëîãîâ è ãàñòðîýíòåðîëîãîâ. Âîçìîæíî, ñâåäåíèÿ çàòåì äîéäóò è äî ðÿäîâûõ ïîòðåáèòåëåé ïèùåâûõ äîáàâîê è "ýêîëîãè÷åñêè ÷èñòûõ" ïðîäóêòîâ. À, ìîæåò áûòü, âñå îñòàíåòñÿ ïî-ïðåæíåìó, êàê âåðà â ÷óäîäåéñòâåííóþ ñèëó éîãóðòà.

     äàëüíåéøåì ìû áóäåì ïóáëèêîâàòü ìàòåðèàëû è î äðóãèõ íåñóùåñòâóþùèõ áîëåçíÿõ (èíôåêöèîííûõ è èììóííûõ), êîòîðûå â ìåäèöèíñêèõ ëàáîðàòîðèÿõ àêòèâíî âûÿâëÿþò, äèàãíîñòèðóþò è "ëå÷àò" ïîä ëàáîðàòîðíûì êîíòðîëåì çà áîëüøóþ ïëàòó.

    Â.Â. Âàñèëåíêî

  5. Alexei
    #65
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    alexvod, íó ýòî æå íå ìåòîä ïðîâåðêè ðàáîòû ëàáîðàòîðèè!! À åñëè èç 10 ïóñòûõ àïïëèêàòîðîâ 9 áóäóò ïîëîæèòåëüíûìè... à âàì ïîïàäåòñÿ 1 îòðèöàòåëíûé!?? Äà è âîîáùå! Òàêèå ëàáîðàòîðèè çàêðûâàþò. Èçâèíèòå, ñóùåñòâóþò ìåòîäû ïðâåðêè ðàáîòû ëàáîðàòîðèé, ýòèì çàíèìàþòñÿ ñàíèòàðíûå âðà÷è, ÑÝÑ, ìåòîäû òàì äðóãèå, è ëàáîðàòîðèé òàê ðàáîòàþùèõ, ìíå áû õîòåëîñü âåðèòü, íå ñóùåñòâóåò.

    Ïî ïîâîäó êðèòåðèåâ äèàãíîçà âûøå áûë äîêóìåíò, â êîòîðîì, ïî-ìîåìó, âñå íàïèñàíî

    È âîîáùå, ÷òî òàêîå "ïîäòâåðäèòñÿ ýíòåðîêîëèò"? Òàì íàéäóò ïàòîãåííûå ìèêðîáû? È ñëó÷àé ýòîò íå áóäåò îòñëåæèâàòüñÿ?

  6. alexvod
    #66
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Óæ ïðîñòèòå, íå âûäåðæàë! Âû øòî õîòèòå ñêàçàòü ÷òî â âàøåé ëàáîðàòîðèè âûðàñòàþò ïàòîãåííûå ìèêðîáû íà ïóñòîì ìåñòå!!?? èëè ïóòàþò àíàëèçû!!?? Åñëè òàêîå èìååò ìåñòî áûòü - ýòî ïîäëåæèò ðàññëåäîâàíèþ, åñëè íå îøèáàþñü, áóäåò ðàñöåíèâàòüñÿ êàê õàëàòíîñòü c ïðè÷èíåíèåì âðåäà çäîðîâüþ



    Îïÿòü Âû âñå íà ëàáîðàòîðèþ. Âû ñàìè àíàëèçû áåðåòå? Õîðîøî. Ìàñêó îäåâàåòå? Èíîãäà èõ áåðåò îäíà ìåäñåñòðà. Çà ïîë ÷àñà - 10 äåòåé. Ñàì âèäåë íà ïðàêòèêå ïîñëå 3 êóðñà. Ïðîñòèòå, êòî åå ïðîâåðÿåò?  ïîëèêëèíèêå?

    Â ëàáîðàòîðèè ÂÑÅÃÄÀ åñòü âíóòðåííèé ïîëîæèòåëüíûé è ÎÒÐÈÖÀÒÅËÜÍÛÉ êîíòðîëè. À íà ýòàïå çàáîðà ìàòåðèàëà?

    ß ïðåäëîæèë Âàì îòðèöàòåëüíûé êîíòðîëü íà ýòàïå çàáîðà ìàòåðèàëà. Èëè Âû ñ÷èòàåòå ñâîè íàâûêè èäåàëüíûìè è íå íóæäàþùèìèñÿ â êîíòðîëå?

  7. alexvod
    #67
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Êîãäà âû ïîñûëàåòå êàë íà êèøå÷íóþ ãðóïïó ñ äèàãíîçîì "ýíòåðîêîëèò?" ïðèõîäèò îòâåò: îòðèöàòåëüíî. Çàáèðàåòñÿ â íåñòåðèëüíûå ïðîáèðêè, ÷òî òàì ïîÿâèòñÿ îò ÷èõàíèÿ? äèçåíòåðèÿ ÷òî ëè? èëè ïàòîãåííàÿ êèøå÷íàÿ ïàëêà? ÷òî òàì åùå ìîæåò âûðàñòè â êàëå òàêîãî? ñòàôèëîêîêê ÷òî ëè? íå ñìîòðÿò òàì åãî



    ß èìÿ ôàìèëèþ âîçðàñò è äèàãíîç ïðèäóìàë "îò ôîíàðÿ" (êñòàòè ïðîøëûé ðàç ïðèäðàëèñü ê ÔÈÎ, à íå äèàãíîçó). À âîò ñòàôèëîêîêê â àíàëèçàõ íà äèñáàêòåðèîç íàõîäÿò.

  8. V. ZAITSEV
    #68
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Î÷åíü òðóäíî ÷òî-ëèáî îáñóæäàòü, êîãäà îïïîíåíòû ðàç çà ðàçîì óõîäÿò â ñòîðîíó îò êîíêðåòíîãî âîïðîñà, ïîñòàâëåííîãî â ýòîé äèñêóññèè: «èìåþò ëè êëèíè÷åñêîå çíà÷åíèå íàðóøåíèÿ íîðìàëüíîé ìèêðîôëîðû êèøå÷íèêà (äèñáàêòåðèîç) íà ðàçâèòèå òåõ èëè èíûõ çàáîëåâàíèé» èëè ýòî âûäóìêè Ðîññèéñêèõ âðà÷åé,

    Ïðè ýòîì â êà÷åñòâå îñíîâíîãî àðãóìåíòà, ÷òî äèñáàêòåðèîç – âûñîñàííîå èç ïàëüöà áåçãðàìîòíûìè Ðîññèéñêèìè ìåäèêàìè ïàòîëîãè÷åñêîå ñîñòîÿíèå - ïðèâîäÿò êîëè÷åñòâî óïîìèíàíèé ýòîãî òåðìèíà â çàðóáåæíûõ ìåäèöèíñêèõ èñòî÷íèêàõ.



    Ïðèâåë ññûëêó, ãäå ïðèâîäÿòñÿ êó÷à çàðóáåæíûõ èññëåäîâàíèé, ñâÿçàííûõ ñ âîññòàíîâëåíèåì íîðìàëüíîé ìèêðîôëîðû. Ïîõîæå, îïïîíåíòàì ïðîñòî íå äîñóã õîòÿ áû âçãëÿíóòü íà íèõ. Âìåñòî ýòîãî, ïðîäîëæàþò ïðèâîäèòü ïðîñòðàííûå ðàññóæäåíèÿ îáùåãî ïëàíà, îáúÿñíÿþò òåáå èìåííî òî, çà îçâó÷èâàíèå ÷åãî ã-í Çàéöåâ â ýòîì ÄÊ ïîëó÷èë êó÷ó ÷åðíûõ øàðîâ: «÷òî ëå÷èòü íàäî íå îò ìèêðîáîâ, ïóñòü ïîòåíöèàëüíî ïàòîãåííûõ, îáíàðóæåííûõ ÏÖÐ, à îò çàáîëåâàíèé».



    Ó÷èòûâàÿ äåôèöèò âðåìåíè ó îïïîíåíòîâ, ïðèâîæó àííîòàöèè òîëüêî òðåõ ðàáîò èç âûøåóêàçàííîé ññûëêè. È òî, òîëüêî ïîòîìó, ÷òî îíè ýòîãî ãîäà è ðàíäîìèçèðîâàííûå. Ëþáîïûòíî, ÷òî ïåðâàÿ èç íèõ áûëà ïðîâåäåíà êîëëåãàìè èíèöèàòîðà ýòîé äèñêóññèè èç Èçðàèëÿ.

    Pediatrics, 2005 Jan, 115(1), 5 - 9

    Effect of a probiotic infant formula on infections in child care centers: comparison of two probiotic agents; Weizman Z et al.; OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of 2 different species of probiotics in preventing infections in infants attending child care centers . METHODS: A double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized trial was conducted from December 1, 2000, to September 30, 2002, at 14 child care centers in the Beer-Sheva area of Israel in healthy term infants 4 to 10 months old . Infants were assigned randomly to formula supplemented with Bifidobacterium lactis (BB-12), Lactobacillus reuteri (American Type Culture Collection 55730), or no probiotics . Duration of feeding, including follow-up, for each participant was 12 weeks . All infants were fed only the assigned formula and were not breastfed due to parental decision before recruitment to the study . Probiotic or prebiotic food products or supplements were not allowed . Main outcome measures were number of days and number of episodes with fever (>38 degrees C) and number of days and number of episodes with diarrhea or respiratory illness . RESULTS: Participants (n = 201) were similar regarding gestational age, birth weight, gender, and previous breastfeeding . The controls (n = 60), compared with those fed B lactis (n = 73) or L reuteri (n = 68), had significantly more febrile episodes (mean {95% confidence interval}: 0.41 {0.28-0.54} vs 0.27 {0.17-0.37} vs 0.11 {0.04-0.18}, respectively) . The controls also had more diarrhea episodes (0.31 {0.22-0.40} vs 0.13 {0.05-0.21} vs 0.02 {0.01-0.05}, respectively) and episodes of longer duration (0.59 {0.34-0.84} vs 0.37 {0.08-0.66} vs 0.15 {0.12-0.18} days, respectively) . The L reuteri group, compared with BB-12 or controls, had a significant decrease of number of days with fever, clinic visits, child care absences, and antibiotic prescriptions . Rate and duration of respiratory illnesses did not differ significantly between groups . CONCLUSIONS: Child care infants fed a formula supplemented with L reuteri or B lactis had fewer and shorter episodes of diarrhea, with no effect on respiratory illnesses . These effects were more prominent with L reuteri, which was also the only supplement to improve additional morbidity parameters.



    Pediatrics, 2005 Jan, 115(1), 1 - 4

    Oral probiotics reduce the incidence and severity of necrotizing enterocolitis in very low birth weight infants; Lin HC et al.; OBJECTIVE: We evaluated the efficacy of probiotics in reducing the incidence and severity of necrotizing enterocolitis (NEC) in very low birth weight (VLBW) infants . PATIENTS AND METHODS: A prospective, masked, randomized control trial was conducted to evaluate the beneficial effects of probiotics in reducing the incidence and severity of NEC among VLBW (<1500 g) infants . VLBW infants who started to fed enterally and survived beyond the seventh day after birth were eligible for the trial . They were randomized into 2 groups after parental informed consents were obtained . The infants in the study group were fed with Infloran (Lactobacillus acidophilus and Bifidobacterium infantis) with breast milk twice daily until discharged . Infants in the control group were fed with breast milk alone . The clinicians caring for the infants were blinded to the group assignment . The primary outcome was death or NEC (>or= stage 2) . RESULTS: Three hundred sixty-seven infants were enrolled: 180 in the study group and 187 in the control group . The demographic and clinical variables were similar in both groups . The incidence of death or NEC (>or= stage 2) was significantly lower in the study group (9 of 180 vs 24 of 187) . The incidence of NEC (>or= stage 2) was also significantly lower in the study when compared with the control group (2 of 180 vs 10 of 187) . There were 6 cases of severe NEC (Bell stage 3) in the control group and none in the study group . None of the positive blood culture grew Lactobacillus or Bifidobacterium species . CONCLUSION: Infloran as probiotics fed enterally with breast milk reduces the incidence and severity of NEC in VLBW infants.



    Gut, 2005 Feb, 54(2), 242 - 9

    Synbiotic therapy (Bifidobacterium longum/Synergy 1) initiates resolution of inflammation in patients with active ulcerative colitis: a randomised controlled pilot trial; Furrie E et al.; BACKGROUND AND AIMS: Ulcerative colitis (UC) is an acute and chronic inflammatory disease of the large bowel with unknown aetiology . The immune response against normal commensal microorganisms is believed to drive inflammatory processes associated with UC . Therefore, modulation of bacterial communities on the gut mucosa, through the use of probiotics and prebiotics, may be used to modify the disease state . METHODS: A synbiotic was developed for use in UC patients combining a probiotic, Bifidobacterium longum, isolated from healthy rectal epithelium, and a prebiotic (Synergy 1), a preferential inulin-oligofructose growth substrate for the probiotic strain . Treatment was employed in a double blinded randomised controlled trial using 18 patients with active UC for a period of one month . Clinical status was scored and rectal biopsies were collected before and after treatment, and transcription levels of epithelium related immune markers were measured . RESULTS: Sigmoidoscopy scores (scale 0-6) were reduced in the test group (start 4.5 (1.4), end 3.1 (2.5)) compared with placebo (start 2.6 (2.1), end 3.2 (2.2)) (p = 0.06) . mRNA levels for human beta defensins 2, 3, and 4, which are strongly upregulated in active UC, were significantly reduced in the test group after treatment (p = 0.016, 0.038, and 0.008, respectively) . Tumour necrosis factor alpha and interleukin 1alpha, which are inflammatory cytokines that drive inflammation and induce defensin expression, were also significantly reduced after treatment (p = 0.018 and 0.023, respectively) . Biopsies in the test group had reduced inflammation and regeneration of epithelial tissue . CONCLUSIONS: Short term synbiotic treatment of active UC resulted in improvement of the full clinical appearance of chronic inflammation in patients receiving this therapy.

  9. Melnichenko
    #69
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Âîò è íå óéäåì - ôðàçà "èìåþò ëè êëèíè÷åñêîå çíà÷åíèå íàðóøåíèÿ íîðìàëüíîé ìèêðîôëîðû êèøå÷íèêà (äèñáàêòåðèîç) íà ðàçâèòèå òåõ èëè èíûõ çàáîëåâàíèé» íå èìååò ïðàâà íà ñóùåñòâîâàíèå â ðóññêîì ÿçûêå âîîáùå, â ìåäèöèíå â ÷àñòíîñòè, â ëîãèêå îñîáåííî...

    Êòî ìîæåò ïðàâèëüíî ñôîðìóëèðîâàòü âîïðîñ, òîò ìîæåò ðàññ÷èòûâàòü íà ïîëó÷åíèå îòâåòà.

    Ïîïðîáóéòå ñôîðìóëèðîâàòü âîïðîñ- õîòÿ áû îäèí, íî êîíêðåòíûé. Òîãäà Âû ïîéìåòå õîòÿ áû òî, ÷òî öèòèðóåòå..

  10. V. ZAITSEV
    #70
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Ãàëèíà Àôàíàñüåâíà!

    Åñëè äëÿ «äîêàçàòåëüñòâà» íà÷èíàþò âûèñêèâàòü ñòèëèñòè÷åñêèå ïîãðåøíîñòè, òî äàëüíåéøåå îáñóæäåíèå äåéñòâèòåëüíî áåññìûñëåííî.

    P.S. È âñå æå, çà÷åì îòñðî÷èëè çàáàíèâàíèå ã-íà Çàéöåâà? ß âåäü íå èçìåíþñü. Ïðîäëèòü àãîíèþ? Æåñòîêî.

  11. dr.Ira
    #71
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Óâ. ã-í Çàéöåâ! ß ñîãëàñíà, ÷òî ñóùåñòâóþò çàáîëåâàíèÿ è ñîñòîÿíèÿ, âñëåäñòâèè êîòîðûõ íàðóøàåòñÿ ìèêðîôëîðà êèøå÷íèêà (íàïðèìåð, ïðè ÷ðåçìåðíîì óâëå÷åíèè àíòèáèîòèêàìè è èõ íàçíà÷åíèè òàì, ãäå îíè ñîâåðøåííî íå íóæíû). Ïðè ýòîì, íàðóøåíèå ìèêðîôëîðû êèøå÷íèêà ÿâëÿåòñÿ ÑËÅÄÑÒÂÈÅÌ äðóãîãî çàáîëåâàíèÿ, à íå ñàìîñòîÿòåëüíûì çàáîëåâàíèåì! Íî ãîâîðèòü î òîì, ÷òî àñòìà, íàïðèìåð, ÿâëÿåòñÿ ðåçóëüòàòîì "äèñáàêòåðèîçà" (à ÿ âñòðå÷àëà è òàêèå óòâåðæäåíèÿ, âî-ïåðâûõ, à, âî-âòîðûõ, ýòî èìåííî òî, ÷òî ñëåäóåò èç Âàøåé ôðàçû î "êëèíè÷åñêîì çíà÷åíèè" è ò.ä.) - ýòî, ïî ìåíüøåé ìåðå, íîíñåíñ.

    Ïåðå÷èòàéòå âíèìàòåëüíî òî, ÷òî Âû ïðîöèòèðîâàëè...

    dr.Ira

    P.S.È íå íàäî íàçûâàòü òàê îãóëüíî âñåõ ðîññèéñêèõ âðà÷åé áåçãðàìîòíûìè, äàæå â òîì êîíòåêñòå, â êîòîðîì ýòî äåëàåòå Âû.

  12. V. ZAITSEV
    #72
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Óâàæàåìàÿ ä-ð Èðà!

    Ââåðíèòåñü, ïîæàëóéñòà, â íà÷àëî ýòîé äèñêóññèè (áîëåå äâóõ ëåò íàçàä).

    http://forums./showpost.php?p=44141&postcount=15

     ÷åì ðàçíèöà ìåæäó òåì, ÷òî ïèøèòå ñåé÷àñ Âû, ñ ïîñòàíîâêîé âîïðîñà, êîòîðûé ïðåäëàãàë îáñóäèòü ÿ?

    ×òî êàñàåòñÿ, ÷òî ÿ «îãóëüíî íàçûâàþ âñåõ Ðîññèéñêèõ âðà÷åé áåçãðàìîòíûìè».

    Èçâèíèòå, åñëè ÿ ïðîöèòèðóþ íåêîòîðûõ àâòîðèòåòíûõ ó÷àñòíèêîâ, ÷òî ã-í Çàéöåâ - ìàõðîâûé øàðëàòàí è îòïåòûé æóëèê, ïî êîòîðîìó òþðüìà äàâíî ïëà÷åò - Âû ÷òî è çäåñü àâòîðñòâî ýòîãî óòâåðæäåíèÿ ìíå ïðèïèøèòå?

  13. Alon
    #73
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Ãàëèíà Àôàíàñüåâíà!

    È âñå æå, çà÷åì îòñðî÷èëè çàáàíèâàíèå ã-íà Çàéöåâà? ß âåäü íå èçìåíþñü. Ïðîäëèòü àãîíèþ? Æåñòîêî.

    "Ïèô-ïàô îé-îé-îé..." è ò.ä.

  14. V. ZAITSEV
    #74
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Aminazinka íå îäîáðèë(à): åñòü ñïîñîá íå ïðîäëÿòü àãîíèþ - óéòè ñàìîìó... è ñîõðàíèòü ëèöî.



    Ñàì íå óéäó, òàê ÷òî áàíèòå. Õîòÿ áû ïîòîìó, ÷òî äëÿ íåïðåäâçÿòîãî, óìíîãî ïîñåòèòåëÿ ÄÊ èíôîðìàöèÿ êòî, çà ÷òî è êàê áàíèò - õàðàêòåðèçóåò ó÷àñòíèêîâ ëó÷øå, ÷åì äóòûå ðåéòèíãè.

    À âîò òî, ÷òî äëÿ ìíîãèõ ó÷àñòíèêîâ ôîðóìà «ñîõðàíèòü ëèöî» âàæíåå èñòèíû, ýòî òî÷íî ïîäìå÷åíî. ×åìó ïðèìåð è ýòà äèñêóññèÿ.

  15. Melnichenko
    #75
    ×èòàòåëü Íåäóã.Ðó
    Âëàäèìèð ßêîâëåâè÷, Âàì óäàåòñÿ óäèâèòåëüíî óäà÷íî ðàññêàçàòü âñåì ïðèñóòñòâóþùèì, êàêèì îáðàçîì íåêëèíèöèñò âîñïðèíèìàåò êëèíè÷åñêóþ ïðîáëåìó- âîò ìû ìîæåì õîòü ãîëîâîé îá ñòåíêó áèòüñÿ, ðàññêàçûâàÿ, ÷òî íåóäà÷íûé òåðìèí ìåøàåò ðåàëüíîé äèàãíîñòè÷åñêîé è ëå÷åáíîé ïðàêòèêå, à Âû áóäåòå òàêæå óïîðíî ðàññêàçûâàòü î Âàøåì ãëóáîêîì óáåæäåíèè â íåîáõîäèìîñòè ââåäåíèÿ âñåðîññèéñêîãî ýòàëîíà ìèêðîáîâ â êàëå , îòêëîíåíèÿ îò êîòîðîãî - ïåðâîïðè÷èíà âñåõ áåä..



    Íó êàêîå Âàì äåëî äî ïàöèåíòîâ, äî äèàãíîñòè÷åñêèõ îøèáîê, åñëè Âû âñå ðàâíî çíàåòå, ÷òî ìèêðîá íåïîäñ÷èòàííûé - îñíîâà íåïðàâèëüíîé îöåíêè ñîïðîòèâëÿåìîñòè îðãàíèçìà...



    Áëàãîäàðÿ âàì ìû ëó÷øå ïîíèìàåì, êàêèå òàðàêàíû ìîãóò çàâîäèòüñÿ â ãîëîâàõ íàøèõ áåäíûõ ïàöèåíòîâ, è êòî íà ñàìîì äåëå ñòðî÷èò ñòàòüè â ÇÎÆ.

    Òàê ÷òî îñòàâàéòåñü ñ íàìè - ê Âàì ìû óæå ïðèâûêëè, à íîâûå áîðöû çà ïîâûøåíèå èíòåëëåêòà âðà÷åé áûâàþò êóäà àãðåññèâíåå..

Êëèíèêà ñòîìàòîëîãèè è êîñìåòîëîãèè â Ìîñêâå

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