Fracture of a navicular

[Talaya]

Day kind. To me 21, I marafonets.

The situation is those, 2 months ago I have was traumatized the left arm or hand, have fallen from the big height.

At once has addressed in travmapunkt - have told or said a stretching, etc., a pier of anything special. I with quiet soul trained, gantelki, horizontal bars... The Pain did not pass or take place, though is tolerant. 15 days ago has addressed to the orthopedist (as for 2 months of improvements is not present), he has directed on a roentgen. Has diagnosed - fracture of a navicular, with shift. Like even were going to at once to operate, but having conferred have decided to impose a gypsum... Having told or said *quot; well let already all over again ?Oa?ONO?n*quot; (having consulted to manager. Unit). I go with a gypsum to this day.

Several days ago I have addressed in 2 different paid clinics.

1) In the first the doctor has told or said, that fracture of a bone is not present, and there is no shift. And if was, the interosseous callositas which on a picture later 2 months after a trauma necessarily would be visible was necessarily formed. Has told or said that the gypsum - full nonsense, and a maximum is necessary to me an elastic roller... That the trauma of ligaments or cords can disturb and a floor of year.

2) In the second have made one more roentgen, oooochen longly conferred, and have told or said, that taki they have seen fracture of a navicular, but already without shift. Have told or said, that he grows together very badly, probably it is required to operate, a spoke to insert. And also the variant is possible or probable, that she at all srastetsja, will acquire an osteal tissue and is what is it normal, will not stir or prevent.

The picture of 2 week prescription is accessible here



http: // home5.rs.net.ua/x.jpg



Prompt, to that to believe? 3 different hospitals, 3 different opinions...

[cates]

Zdravtsvujte, marafonets.

1) In the first the doctor has told or said, that fracture of a bone is not present, and there is no shift. And if was, the interosseous callositas which on a picture later 2 months after a trauma necessarily would be visible was necessarily formed. Has told or said that the gypsum - full nonsense, and a maximum is necessary to me an elastic roller... That the trauma of ligaments or cords can disturb and a floor of year.



Professionalism raises the doubts in general...



2) In the second have made one more roentgen, oooochen longly conferred,

Here and to confer there is nothing...



Also have told or said, that taki they have seen fracture of a navicular, but already without shift. Have told or said, that he grows together very badly, probably it is required to operate, a spoke to insert. And also the variant is possible or probable, that she at all srastetsja, will acquire an osteal tissue and is what is it normal, will not stir or prevent.



This quite proved opinion.



Prompt, to that to believe? 3 different hospitals, 3 different opinions...



Perlomy a navicular - very unpleasant thing.

15 days are late diagnostics.

To remove or take out a gypsum also it is impossible. And to wear it or him it is necessary from 2 up to 6 mes, and in special position (the arm or hand is curved), which sposobsvtuet for rapproachement of fragments.

And even it not zastrahovyvaet that fracture not srastetsja.

If there is a mood - moeete to address to me internally.

All blessings.

[Viktoriya1804]

Unequivocally to judge on the presented pictures fracture difficultly.

It is necessary to estimate or appreciate closely or attentively ?????*quot; NON??a*quot; Inverted commas are put deliberately since sushchkstvuet a pathology of development of bones of a wrist, in particular double carinate, that is not excluded at you.

For it-testifies/how much is possible to see on a /-smoothness of contours *quot; fragments *quot; and full absence of attributes of an osteal callositas after two ?N?nNo./though also is known about difficulty of an adhesion of these bones/treat a picture as *quot; false ?O?Oao*quot; there are no bases, t.k.net its or his attributes-educations kongruentnosti/?OoNO?Oo?n/fracture of a joint neogenic in a zone.

In dopolnenie-I recommend to estimate or appreciate closely or attentively a picture/and not a drawing and-/on presence of an osteoporosis in a distal department of a ulnar bone.!

Vrentgenologii there is a concept-not knowledge from nevidenija and ignorance from IGNORANCE.

I do not think what unequivocally to regard the presented roentgenogram as fracture correctly.

[bambr-sv]

In my opinion, fracture on a picture unequivocally is also its or his line is traced on both projections. Our dispute is better the computer tomography will judge. She will remove or take off all questions.



About a nearthrosis to speak very much early, terms not those. However, he will be more likely than is not present.

In this case I do not believe in an opportunity konservatinogo treatments



On the reception I unequivocally would recommend operative treatment

As - other question



Bracing by spokes is is not modern

There are other ways. But also it not the main thing. Fracture can all the same not srastis. Business in very poor or scanty delivery of a navicular. Sometimes at operation inside of a bone it is necessary to place a new arterial vessel for improvement of a delivery and accretion of fracture. It seems to me, that one of fragments already tends to an aseptic necrosis, destruction.



Conservative treatment the patient only will stretch time.

[Were interested or Interested]

Difficulties of an adhesion and the ways of treatment described by you are indisputable.

The question In, WHETHER is FRACTURE? On a lateral picture of the information a little, PERFORMANCE ADDITIONAL UNDER OTHER ANGLE is possible or probable.

Against fracture what has seen on and-is not present? *quot; ????N*quot; .priznaki an aseptic necrosis??

[Veronica]

And there there are enlightenments



Really, is also special stacking for standard roentgenography. However for tactics it is very important to confirm or deny these enlightenments



Questions will remove or take off all either kt or mrt



And let's connect to discussion still roentgenologists

[little-mick]

Hello, colleagues and patients.

1. In any way I shall not understand that raises the doubts available of fracture.

Whether 2. there is a chance at fracture srastis without operation? - Is.

Whether there is a chance to receive necrosis with operation - too is.

And these chances are approximately identical.

So it is better to wait without operation.



3. What doubts will dispell KT?

[ljusena]

kt will answer questions

Whether there is no rotation of one of fragments

Indirect attributes interpozitsii

Attributes of an aseptic necrosis



The answer to these questions should change tactics



Operation including is prophylaxis ostenekroza. At a choice of a correct method, in its or her result the osteonecrosis cannot come or step basically.

That it is impossible to tell or say about conservative treatment



In this case there is no sense to delay conservative treatment

It is not enough chances srastit fracture so

I pay attention to terms - 3 months! It is a lot of for immobilizatsionnogo treatment

[12333]

Concerning interpreting a picture I have stated the opinion right at the beginning.

As to performance MRI it is not consent stem, what is it research *quot; will solve all Oi?N?U*quot; only for one reason-way of research the problem NOT RESHAET.Problemu DIAGNOSTICS is solved by the EXPERT interpreting the received information.

As it is possible to regard/up to an output or exit on a forum, that as the patient writes, in one place have told or said fracture, in other-is not present. To not see *quot; a line NON??a*quot; it is necessary to be blind. Whether however fracture eto-here a question.

Uv traumatologists look or see in the atlas of a pathology of a brush about congenital anomalies of this organ. This came across to me a??a??n/is available in view of a gemination polulunnoj bones / which anything does not show itself until then while in connection with a trauma the picture is carried out.

I would recommend to make isotope research/it or this;thus that is carried out o??Oa??N/for reception additional informatsii/in similar cases.

[imported_]

Yes, I too like isotope researches

They often gain or help us by search implicit, pathological, osteohondralnyh and fatigue fractures. By the way, not too it is a lot of researches and books in this direction. In Russian especially. There is a reason and in this advice or council. It would be necessary already and to hear opinion of the patient.

[mike201]

Thanks all expressed... It is better to hear some opinions though also different then already is above what to argue.



Today has passed or has taken place month from the moment of naklozhenija a gypsum... Tomorrow I go on reception to the local orthopedist, most likely there will be a repeated roentgen.

I shall lay out again if at you interest to my history was not gone...



Estesvenno I shall again be passed or shall again be taken place on several doctors... I live in Ukraine, Sumy. The blessing by transport it is not burdened, went and in the Kharkov hospitals, and in Kiev... In one have made one more roentgen on the most up-to-date oborudovani... And it was circus, whether in 4-rum found out there is a fracture... The Answer was, pay attention, the citation *quot; Well vobshchem is ?aoNO?N*quot;. And a roentgen have not enabled to take away from hospital (from them on a computer, in an electron variant)... Most likely as the conclusion that have written, but are not assured of correctness... Whether that were afraid that has not started to have legal proceedings or still that?



At me rigidly healthy way of life of years with 16... Trainings, morzhevanie and so on, I do not smoke, and I eat completely, without sedki, beer and so forth beleberdy... Therefore has decided to count upon a conservative method nevertheless. Even in a gypsum if to find a correct angle and uperetsja in a table I feel a small pain in a place of fracture (in a status of rest any pains is not present)... Most likely up to the order

Still far... But though it will be visible there are promotions aside srostanija bones or not. If is not present... Then obviously it is necessary to address to surgery.



And to operate?... Yes I can and to go to Israel... But there is no at me a confidence of that clinic to me will help or assist.



For the first time in a life has got in such situation and uzhasnulsja... Surprises More... Well it is visible, that the doctor does not know what to tell or say... Well tell or say *quot; not OoNON?*quot;. Is not present... Something yes will think up.



Gloomy... A picture gloomy and sad.

[1111111]

Do not long.

Hardly on pictures there will be something essentially new. But nevertheless show.

[lobs4527]

Also do not hurry with trips

We, doctors, know many histories about hit of patients in foreign clinics where anything acceptable with them did not occur or happen

, maybe, as a result it is required to you professiol instead of a tour

Write, consult once again

[sopovtolya]

It is how much known, till now, the unequivocal conclusion about presence of fracture net.posemu urgently I recommend to execute isotope research which will help or assist to be defined or determined with the diagnosis, and according to it or this to solve the problem on conservative or operative treatment.

[katii]

Unfortunately positive news are not present...

The repeated roentgen has not shown any changes... I shall lay out it or him hardly later, fotik in the machine or car have forgotten, and skanner the negative will not display.



Has again listened to some opinions... Has stopped while on such : all the same already has passed or has taken place too much, and now it is clear, a bone not srastetsja by itself... nachitavshis books, having listened to 6 opinions of doctors has decided to give an arm or a hand relative rest (already without a gypsum). Probably generated nearthrosis remains not having reduced force of an arm or a hand and will not disturb (there are also such cases, and described not only in books, and and two orthopedists have confirmed this in the practice).

Have appointed or nominated ultrasound and el. forez.. To sense will be not much, but what I should resemble?



If later month of result will not be... Then will have to operate. The majority recommends while to wait. Obviously correctly... Not so essentially, 3 or 4 months.

Surrenders to me, all taki it will be necessary to address to surgery... Funny... Doctors do not speak, but it is visible - are afraid to undertake my case.:)



From medicines it is not counted a calcium, phosphorus and vitamins still strong recommend *quot; iO??*quot;. Well... All concerning natures. A product... We Shall use.



The bone is located correctly, without shift. I hope that it is possible to return trainings. Yesterday on full ran off 12 km... After pritoplennyh trainings hardly. I avoid a load on a brush. While I develop on the sly... I after a month of such dense gypsum cannot unbend especially a brush outside. In warm vodichke on the sly I knead 3-4 times a day. I go with an elastic roller.



Here perhaps and all...



With gratitude I shall listen to you.



P.S. In occasion of isotope inspection. Has interrogated many... Nobody knows where this can be executed within the limits of Ukraine... But if really there is a sense in it or this I can and to Moscow sezit... Explain please, what is it from itself represents and what will give me?

[Ekaterina]

To me 28, in August of this year has damaged or injured;hurt the right arm or hand. Addressed to the traumatologist three times, did or made a roentgen - the diagnosis a bruise, a stretching twice, etc. As a result of 15 days ago at the next photo of my arm or hand it was found out, that I 3 months go with fracture of a navicular. Again taki two variants from doctors - to operate, try to impose for 1 month a gypsum, and it will be visible further. For today two weeks in a gypsum. Interestingly than the history at kostod has ended? If something heard or knows, I shall be very grateful for the answer.:confused:

[avgustin]

To me 28, in August of this year has damaged or injured;hurt the right arm or hand. Addressed to the traumatologist three times, did or made a roentgen - the diagnosis a bruise, a stretching twice, etc. As a result of 15 days ago at the next photo of my arm or hand it was found out, that I 3 months go with fracture of a navicular. Again taki two variants from doctors - to operate, try to impose for 1 month a gypsum, and it will be visible further. For today two weeks in a gypsum. Interestingly than the history at kostod has ended? If something heard or knows, I shall be very grateful for the answer.:confused:

Lay out a picture executed before applying a gypsum if it is not difficult.

It is quite probable, that already there are attributes of a nearthrosis.

At presence of those to plaster not imet sense.

[I, I]

It is how much known, till now, the unequivocal conclusion about presence of fracture net.posemu urgently I recommend to execute isotope research which will help or assist to be defined or determined with the diagnosis, and according to it or this to solve the problem on conservative or operative treatment.

Quite right. A scintigram, especially if to make it or her with augmentation (the collimator pin-) will show fracture.

[Ramzes]

Lay out a picture executed before applying a gypsum if it is not difficult.

It is quite probable, that already there are attributes of a nearthrosis.

At presence of those to plaster not imet sense.





Picture at my attending physician. Tomorrow I shall lay out. If there are attributes of a nearthrosis and a gypsum is not necessary what to do or make: 1) to operate; 2) it is possible to live further and to do or make nothing?