Suicide: ethics and acceptance of the responsibility

[Wel:-D]

Dear visitors!
At discussion and furthermore commenting of another's personal problems, I ask you to keep ethics of dialogue. The comments especially condemning the comments of another's behaviour should be shown to a minimum.
Extra care should be kept at discussion of problems connected with suicidal behaviour.
Probably, here it would be pertinent to tell about own experience of overcoming of vital crises, to take an interest, in what of the reason why the similar situation could develop.
If you wish to show the support, stretching an arm or a hand " hanging above a precipice ", try to do or make it accurately and to not push off the person rescueed or saved;salvaged by you. One careless movement and opportunities to correct a situation at you any more will not be. It is the huge responsibility.
I invite to discuss a subject of the suicide, what circumstances, what warehouse of the person can promote a suicide and how with it or this it is possible to live? To struggle? To be reconciled? To suffer or bear? To hope?
Share your practical experience or () theoretical reasonings on this subject.

[Semius]

It absolutely agree with that that concerns to such people it is necessary with care...... The truth pomoch it or him turns out extremely seldom, pomoch instead of to deduce or remove from a suicidal status, if they it or this nezahotjat.

I here already in one tope resulted or brought the example and an example of the friend..... Simply belief in.

[Wel:-D]

Still there are opinions?

[Ljalja]

Well I for myself too already for a long time have solved, that the suicide is not an output or exit. In general the life without problems is boring. In fact the the life is more complex or difficult, the she is more interesting! To be dumped or reset from a roof is very easily. And here, when I make a decision to meet face to face the problems and TO LIVE, the respect for wakes up! I Mean strong! And it gives even greater or big confidence of!

[Wel:-D]

Odobrjams!:)

[The friend]

It is not true, that the person can convince always itself how much or as far as he strong. I of advanced age. But in a life was momen when I have begun this procedure. I can respond, that then me moved. Simply pain sincere from losses (completely not material) was other-wordly. The sun were not. Putota.
And wild calmness. Feelings are not present. The idea works precisely and clearly. That it is necessary to make to release or exempt itself from this pain.
And the main thing. Very seldom person independently leaves this status. If who from associates in time will notice and in time will stretch an arm or a hand.
I was helped or assisted by a case. The son has opened in time a door. And the girlfriend stayed near me such maty perfect bent day
It to me, the dear person? Now she sometimes asks me. How, the old stinker, at you business or affairs? I think, to me has carried on close people. We should be closer or more attentive to each other. Now mine deviz-in our life without mata and hundred gram is impossible! Probably, my girlfriend not being the doctor has beaten out simply one shock another.

The life is surprising! Around perfect people! There Are remarkable doctors. Same now happiness. When it is possible to talk to the expert. To understand. To not panic, and in time to solve the problems. And to be pleased, rastit children, grandsons, to experience, worry, be afflicted - i.e. to live!

[Angel]

Very ticklish subject... Unfortunately, and can be and fortunately in due time and I was bypassed the party or side by these dilema. It seems to me, that the suicide happens two kinds, the first is impulsive when the coincidence of circumstances during any moment is simple reach or achieve such limit that there is a desire to escape somewhere above and to jump off... It is good, if while you run, in a head there will be a sensible idea that it is necessary TO LIVE, I was visited or attended Thanks God. And the second kind is a long preparation for the given process as a result of the gone through stress, pressing depresii, one-way love, and sometimes in addition and desire to meet THERE with the close died person. As to the first kind at me it was for insult, that do not understand me, when I was in podprostkovom age (probably therefore now to the senior daughter to the teenager I concern differently, I try to respect with its or her opinion and love which so zybka and it is changeable) I think, that with impulsive desire of a suicide to consult easier and associates can help or assist, and here in the second case the help of the expert as even one incorrectly given advice or council can lead irreversible is more often is required, we in fact have not enough jokers, not always think told or said. Now I as though was never difficult I shall finish a life, I have native people who are necessary to me, and I am necessary to them! And in general the-life is perfect!!!

[Wellness]

" Where the person is alive, he should not despair. From the greatest burning he can pass to the greatest pleasure, from uzhasnejshego disasters - to the uttermost pleasure "
(Konfutsy)

In due time this statement of the great philosopher has amazed or struck me. Has amazed or struck with the optimism. Konfutsy spoke not only about people of time, but also about us. What is interestingly, being in grief seldom believe that all will be adjusted. And when to you it is good, never you think about grief. And the suicide is made then when you do not believe that there will come or step the greatest pleasure and pleasure, or do not see it or this or when it or this you do not wish.

[Wellness]

Wel:-D, what has promoted creation of this subject about a suicide?

[Wel:-D]

I want greater soedinyonnosti, harmonies of mind or wit, ideas, emotions, feelings, behaviour, acts and the responsibility for all it at visitors of a forum. Reflections about mors, about discontinuing a life, help or assist to do or make it frequently more effectively (at some people), than reflections about a life. There are also other reasons.

[Slash]

I do not know... Wellness, I can am mistaken, but konfutsy was wrong...
Simply because the uttermost pleasure does not happen... It happens only in paradise, and existence of paradise is not proved... Always as though well was eat any doubts, any trifles which spoil it "well"...

Suicide? It is simple... All up to horror simply... A pain and all... nchiego except for a pain... The pain muffles all feelings... You bring an edge to an arm or a hand and the arm or hand wants that it or her cut, it is inconvenient her so... It is unpleasant to be the whole... It or she needs to be cut - so it will be easy or light... All occurs or happens izza pains... izza that that an output or exit is not visible... It is not visible to an opportunity of an output or exit.... I for myself have personally drawn a conclusion, that if the output or exit is not present it is necessary to live simply on another.... That if something is impossible, it especially and is not necessary.. It is possible to be happy having something or something else... Or even appreciating that that at you is, because at everyone something and is... Practically at everyone... At least at everyone here... Because if there is an access to the Internet, something means already is.... And for certain there is something except for it or this...

To impose on itself arms or hand awfully simply and awfully hardly... But sometimes the pain becomes simply intolerable... I was rescueed or saved in due time not with music... Not someone from people... Music...

I remember real history about the teenager who has understood that for 16 years he in a life has seen what to live so much to him it is not necessary any more... He has already prepared itself(himself) for a loop, has written a premortal note, has risen on a stool, and on a TV set there was clip Don't cry all of the same ganzov (Guns N ' Roses)... It or he was amazed or struck with that in a clip all over again the person goes features knows where... A terrible frost, a wind, a snow, a blizzard.... An output or exit it is not visible... But he struggles for the life, and then the same person HIMSELF tries to shoot itself...
It or He was amazed or struck with it... That discrepancy of the person

I do not know still is young, still much I do not understand, my estimation can be biassed, but all probably the suicide occurs or happens in pryve emotions... Probably it is wrong... Simply because then nothing will be... Then there will be an extremity or end... Means to kill itself there is no sense because the extremity or end all peerly sooner or later will come or step... And from a life very much much can be received for itself... In any other sphere... Not in that izza which the person tries to impose on itself arms or hand... It or she can reject and achieve in general something in another, to concentrate attention to her...

Yes good, what difference? It is necessary to consider or examine;survey each case separately... And in general the life is senseless.... To live to receive only as much as possible pleasure and then to die? In it or this there is a sense? In my opinion is not present.... About so all of us also we live...

[Wellness]

the Initial report from Wel:-D
I want greater soedinyonnosti, harmonies of mind or wit, ideas, emotions, feelings, behaviour, acts and the responsibility for all it at visitors of a forum. Reflections about mors, about discontinuing a life, help or assist to do or make it frequently more effectively (at some people), than reflections about a life. There are also other reasons.

Consolidation of group?

[Wellness]

the Initial report from Slash
I do not know... Wellness, I can am mistaken, but konfutsy was wrong...
Simply because the uttermost pleasure does not happen... It happens only in paradise, and existence of paradise is not proved... Always as though well was eat any doubts, any trifles which spoil it "well"...

I think Konfutsy meant subjective feeling of full grief and full pleasure. In fact, that is good for you, to me can at all it is pleasant:) the Accent or Stress here costs or stands that the life can vary very abruptly, and our sensations too can vary very strongly, from plus to a minus and naobrot. It is just necessary to remember, that the situation depressing you can cardinally change.

And in general the life is senseless.... To live to receive only as much as possible pleasure and then to die? In it or this there is a sense? In my opinion is not present.... About so all of us also we live... [/QUOTE]

Unless ALL we and live? It is possible to tell or say with confidence as I live, but here as to my neighbour is to me it is not known.

[Slash]

About konfutsija yes, it agree, I carp at trifles as always... The sense of that phrase at all in it or this, namely that a situation is instant can to change cardinally...

Wellness, I shall not speak that I am assured or confident that you not can, but I cannot result or bring any example of human action which would not be directed on reception of pleasure...
Simply person - such essence and all... nchiego here you will not do or make... At us even by development artificial intelleekta a primary factor is such concept as "horoshometr", that is some kind of a scale "horoshesti"... I.e. if after the next action value or meaning;importance horoshometra raises or increases, it is necessary to do or make is more often such actions if goes down such actions need to be avoided... Certainly it is a primitive basis of algorithm. But all peerly from this it is possible to draw some conclusions....

Try to give an example actions of any person, ktoroe it would not be directed on reception of pleasure

[Wellness]

You understand, Slesh, besides, all is very subjective. What bad in a life just for the hell of it? opredeleit, that such pleasure for you personally for the beginning is necessary.
In fact when the person satisfies famine and thirst, he takes pleasure. When goes to bed after the difficult working day, too feels pleasure. When receives a desirable workplace or a gift, the person too ispytvaet pleasure. The some people can feel pleasure and when do or make other people happy and please them.:)

[Wel:-D]

To take pleasure consequence or investigation of correct actions and to make actions for achievement of pleasure are absolutely different things. Misunderstanding of it or this kontsepta leads to mors.
When the person puts to itself the purpose, chooses a way of its or her achievement, carries out it or him and if all is done or made correctly reaches or achieves the purpose, he takes pleasure on protjazheniii all process. And should be - reception of pleasure when the counted way and the purpose coincide with a reality is one of base principles of job of the mechanism with the name " an acceptor of action ".
But pleasure it to some extent the BY-EFFECT. Direct aspiration to reception of pleasure, and formation of behaviour with the purpose of reception of pleasure lead to destruction of the subject, both psychological, and physical and finally - not to achievement of pleasure.
And than stronger pleasure, the more direct way to it or him;them gets out, the there is a destruction, loss of pleasure and meaning of the life more strongly and more quickly.
Examples, I am assured or confident, you can priveti.
If with it or this there will be complexities - glance on a forum the sexopathologist, more than half of questions - " why are not present an orgasm, an erection " and so forth And the reason one - aspiration to olucheniju pleasure. I any more do not speak about narkozavisimyh...

[jtyftg]

About it I also speak...

[White_Phoenix]

Suicide...
From the early childhood I was nervous enough child. Strong nervous experiences which concerned or touched personally me were given to me very painfully - I tererjal orientation in space and choked. Physically departed quickly, psychologically process was tightened or delayed on days or puts-two. All it incorporated or was bridged to mine by diligence, obedience and provinciality of small small town, to it or this to my "strangenesses" tried to not pay attention.
First time I thought of suicide when to me was years 12. I liked the family, but by then it or her it became seems any more. Mum liked the father, he drank and walked and sometimes beat mum - for me it was a shock and a hysterics. Cunningly that I often could not fall asleep, it was not convinced yet, that the father has come sober. This all has ended with my lunacy, as became last drop - parents have divorced. Probably from gone through even now I am not able to trust men of years on 20-25 is more senior. During this period I often thought of mors, but it was periodically and there was no strong aspiration. I had nonsense to tell or say about it or this to mum. To me it auknulos later. Parents then have already divorced, mum had a stressful day: troubles at job (much later I have learned or have found out, that this day she has made obort), we with the brother have played a dirty trick plus babulja once again "otchudila" the dostavanijami in occasion of the father (the father, the concept "daddy" at me is absent years with 8-9). As a result of failure and vymeshchenie on those who is closer. As now I remember these words: " Well, for that you wait, give ". And I was ready... Twilight, the river, dark water, unwillingness to live... prohojashchy past the person, can he and has rescueed or saved - it was somehow a shame at witnesses... I zaryoksja to speak someone about the experiences. And then all (the at home there was a sea of tears, apologies, I have forgiven or excused, but I can not forget) became somehow indifferent, but I have recollected, that I like. It was the first love, Platonic. I have entered first time into the first class, have seen and have fallen in love. I liked it or her 9 years (now I understand, that all was in my arms or hand - she even in own way showed innitsiativu, swept aside carings others; I at this time stopped attempts of others devchyonok - love), but we so each other anything and have not told or said, though have stayed behind one school desk of years 6. And then all has ended, as soon as it became known to all... (the first unpleasant experience of disturbance of the pledge). We Also experienced it somehow not for long - it or she at once had a guy, I could choose, to that to prefer:) (The handsome man (fatherly beauty), the honours pupil, the winner various regional and the prize-winner of regional Olympiads, the humorist (not the clown), was able and liked to dance, played on fano), and guys envied, but were afraid to apply force - the favourite of teachers and their parents. In 9-th class was final in muzykalke (I till now remind mum where and at I the first time has drunk:)). In 2 years at school. I remember, after final evening our young himichka (to her was no more than 30) has declared, that has learned or has found out me vodnochase at once from two parties or sides: 1. When I played on fano waltz Hachaturjana from "Masquerade" before teachers (for the first time) and when has refused to spend home one devchyonku which was to that to see off, and I concerned to her only as to the friend - my heart was pure or clean, and the soul calmed down or was abirritated after 9- years or summer self-tortures.
Yes, in 1-st class at me has appeared "enemy". She lead up me up to white kolenija, and all surrounding adults somehow is too torpently on this all reacted. Then I have understood why this all was, and she has admitted. But reaction on it or her has remained with me only one (but with a smile) - the stinker.
After school was fizfak. Why fizfak (optics), I and have not understood till now - I disliked physics, and some sections otkorovenno ignored (as that electricity and magnitizm). Why not matimatika or geography, legal or economic? Probably because most of all was afraid of army for money " on entering " was not, and bitter experience was. I in 11 class acted in trade and economic (was any spets. The set from any bank), has passed or has taken place all stages, and on final on the liked mathematics has received 2 points. On the appeal to me, 16- to the years or summer teenager, have told or said directly that does not suffice me for entering - 2 thousand dollars with something. I have been offended, and now I speak well and thanks God.
So, fizfak. I at once acted on optics, and me have defined or determined on KTP (the quantum theory of a field) - physics accepted KTPist and it was pleasant to him, as I unpretentious zadachku have solved 3- in the ways from complex or difficult to simple - was and there is at me such "dislocation": " normal heroes always go around ". School mushtru remembered, and to cross out correct, but bulky it would not be desirable. For complicatings to me sometimes school matematichka in the educational purposes reduced estimations on control (usually on geometry). I also did not know, what is this the animal such and awfully did not want (me frightened first of all a word "floor or field" - elektrikoj pahlo). With fights it was translated to optics (has bothered zav.kafedroj up to such degree, that he personally asked the dean, that asked later why it is manager. So for me struggled...).
To the extremity or end of September me have translated or transferred and got acquainted with new group. There I have seen these eyes, these labiums and was frightened.

[White_Phoenix]

Know, I thought, what is it for ever remains in me. Has written, I feel fear, a pain, desire to finish with everything, but also simplification.
Probably tomorrow I shall finish. Strange somehow. I hope, I then shall not regret about it or this.
This all is complex or difficult somehow.

[Wellness]

Tomorrow has come or stepped. I hope have not finished? Very much I hope.
Read your story with it is faded hearts.
Nobody spoke, that a life simple. At it or her it is a lot of qualities. But one of them whom I wish to note-it "surprising", and for the sake of this quality it is necessary to live once to tell or say " as she it is perfect - a life! ".