Influence of cholinolytics on equilibrium between smpaticheskim and parasimpaticheskim a department.

[The boy still]

I read here *quot; O??OO?*quot; physiology and stoklknulsja with following neponjatkoj.

Short neponjatki in why cholinolytics cause a tachycardia?



In school us not especially immersed in depths of functioning VNS. It was spoken - in a sympathetic part nejromediator (NANOMETER) - Noradrenalinum in parasimpaticheskoj - NANOMETER Acetylcholinum. Cholinolytics reducing quantity or amount of Acetylcholinum in synapses parasimpaticheskogo a department reduce its or his tonus and equilibrium is displaced aside simpatiki.



Now I read: Acetylcholinum is NANOMETER and in preganglionic neurones of sympathetic system. That is all preganglionic neurones are cholinergic. Whether it be sympathetic or parasimpaticheskaja a part.



Considering the scheme or plan of carrying out - kernels or cores *gt; *gt; preganglionic neurones (NM-Acetylcholinum) *gt; *gt; ganglions (NANOMETER Acetylcholinum and Noradrenalinum depending on part VNS *gt; *gt; postganglionic neurones (nothing is told or said about NANOMETER)

- Should suffer and a sympathetic part for right at the beginning of a way of carrying out to its or her synapses the quantity or amount of Acetylcholinum too decreases. And its or her tonus should decrease.



On idea the tonus of both parts should decrease and innerviruemyj the organ, in this case heart should not react to cholinolytics. However it or this is not present.



It is possible to explain in what a tricks?

THAT that in the book is correct, I do not doubt.

[Dmitry]

The matter is that holinoretseptory there is a M (there still everyones 1,2) and N. In organs - M, in ganglions - N. Cholinolytics dejtsvujut on M (i.e. only at a level of the terminations or endings in efferent organs and more in brains). And here ganglioblokatory act N (i.e. in ganglions as With and PS).

Yours faithfully,

[Alexey]

The matter is that holinoretseptory there is a M (there still everyones 1,2) and N.

That is muskarinochuvstvitelnye and nikotinochuvstvitelnye. Here it too leads up a blind alley a little, whether means from their names, what they besides Acetylcholinum react also on muskarin and a nicotine (ovuju) to-that? Accordingly?

Cholinolytics dejtsvujut on M (i.e. only at a level of the terminations or endings in efferent organs and more in brains).

Then probably *quot; O?????O??*quot; not absolutely correct name?

In fact in synapses from M receptors, as well as in N - NANOMETER Acetylcholinum. If they it or him *quot; ????OO?O*quot; that quantity or amount decreases and in M and N clefts or rima. It turns out, what the mechanism another???



And here ganglioblokatory act N (i.e. in ganglions as With and PS).

But in fact in ganglionic neurones With - NANOMETER Noradrenalinum, whence there ?-receptors? Or this rule operates or works not on all ganglions From system. In this case cervical and zvezdchatyj.



Ganglioblokatory I act With and PS on ganglions simultaneously?



Sorri for nastyrnost. Very much it would be desirable to understand;)

[SHI]

That is muskarinochuvstvitelnye and nikotinochuvstvitelnye. Here it too leads up a blind alley a little, whether means from their names, what they besides Acetylcholinum react also on muskarin and a nicotine (ovuju) to-that? Accordingly?

Yes it also means:

The nicotine (about an acid I do not know, sorri) - causes stimulating influence on AH receptors on postsinapticheskoj to a membrane of independent ganglions, after a while causes their block or trochlea (if it or him much). In small doses he as leads to emission of catecholamins from adrenals, and in greater or big - on the contrary oppresses. As he influences series of chemoceptors (including and in TSNS)

Muskarin - an agonist of M holinoretseptorov





In fact in synapses from M receptors, as well as in N - NANOMETER Acetylcholinum. If they it or him *quot; ????OO?O*quot; that quantity or amount decreases and in M and N clefts or rima. It turns out, what the mechanism another??? Then probably *quot; O?????O??*quot; not absolutely correct name?

Well on the bill of terminology I shall not argue, but cholinolytics, naturally do not lead chemical lizisu AH, they block M-receptors, i.e. them to name the M- more correctly. A terminological problem I think has historical roots since Atropinum was known very much for a long time, and here ganglioblokatory much later...





But in fact in ganglionic neurones With - NANOMETER Noradrenalinum, whence there ?-receptors? Or this rule operates or works not on all ganglions From system. In this case cervical and zvezdchatyj.

Here you have a little got confused. The matter is that on sinapticheskoj to a membrane of a ganglionic neurone (as With and PS) are available N-, and AH in a synapse it is thrown out from an axon of a preganglionic neurone. And in a body of ganglionic neurones of sympathetic system naturally ON, but he has no attitude or relation to a ganglionic synapse, since from a body he are transported on periphery (to the synapse on efferetnom an organ)



Ganglioblokatory I act With and PS on ganglions simultaneously?

Absolutely correctly. Expecting your question why ganglioblokatory lead to depression of a BP, time they dejtsvuju on both systems, I explain - because over the person the most part of time simpatika dominates above parasimpatikoj, therefore its or her blockade has more expressed physiological effect.

[ato]

Aha.

Earlier was: a wood I see, trees I do not see.

Now: Trees I see, ogo they different, but I already in a wood?

:p

It turns out AH here and there.

I now more less understand details.

But it about trees, now again about a wood.



If to extend all neurones With and PA departments in a string that the following will turn out



Sympathetic

[A brain (a kernel or core) NANOMETER ??] *gt; *gt; a preganglionic neurone (PGN) NANOMETER *gt; *gt; ganglionic neurone -?OanON?a???*gt; *gt; a postganglionic neurone of NANOMETER-NORADRENALINUM



Holinoblokatory block site PGN - in fact there NANOMETER - AH

The pulsation decreases. Ganglions From NANOSECOND are reached with already smaller quantity or amount of impulses. The tonus With too turns out a little decreases.

It is correct?



T.e it turns out in preganglionic neurones and With and PA parts the pulsation (tonus) decreases. But in PA it it is more expressed. t.k is PA more sensitive to holinoblokatoram.

Correctly?



And about ganglions. Most gangliobrazna About a part. From PA examples of ganglions unless kernels or cores Dogelja on heart. Ganglions are how much independent? How much or As far as they are capable to self-generation, influence on a proceeding pulsation not analyzing entering?

What ganglioblokator the most typical.

Pyrroxanum is similar?



I shall forgive or excuse pardon for excruciatings

;)

[GT]

1) In the simplified variant (and another is not necessary to us) at sympathetic NANOSECOND the central neurones settle down at a thoracolumbar level (they and are preganglionic). Their axons go to ganglions where there are ganglionic neurones from which there are postganglionic axons (already up to an organ). T.o. Often the mess arises in the nomenclature (one name neurones, and others mean axons:)).

T.o. In SNS is available only two points of transfer of impulse (in a ganglion and in an organ). In a ganglion is Acetylcholinum, which dejtsvuet on ?-receptors, and in organs - ON. The M- cannot block carrying out in sympathetic ganglions (since they do not block M-receptors - sorri, here a typing error, naturally, they not pblokirujut N-receptors). Therefore, M-blockers (Atropinum) do not act on sympathetic system.



2) Ganglioblokatory - for example trimethaphan



3) About ganglions PNS - they it is valid as those are not present, it is the groups of neurones scattered near to efferent organs more likely. About them *quot; independent oO???*quot; tell or say I can nothing (it already a jungle of physiology). But on logic of things especially they on what are not capable, since, for example at patients with a trauma of a cervical department of a spinal cord is always observed gipotnezija. In such situation when commands from above are not present, to an independent regulation organs, for example a bladder are more likely inclined is possible to force oprozhnjatsja *quot; aoO?aO??N??*quot; at achievement of the certain filling.

Yours faithfully,

[antox-a]

Wood... Trees... Can for comprehension to me still branches does not suffice:)

Trrrrrrrrrr, neurones in a cortex, a subcortex and in PNS rustled, they endeavoured to understand that they pass, but while it is vain.





The m- cannot block carrying out in sympathetic ganglions (since they do not block M-receptors).



Trrrrrr... chpok. It was broken off with one neurone. Its or his mortal remains were absorbed with a neuroglia.

It is good if to present all so. Sinapticheskaja the cleft or rima of the Sympathetic part of NANOSECOND where from cerebral neurones is passed the information in a ganglion. On the Presynaptic membrane blisters or blebs with AH reveal, AH drifts aside postsinapticheskoj membranes. On her chemoceptors of M-. In a cleft or rima of M-. He does not block M- (sm your inclined text) (Why he is called then M-, and the receptor does not block?) AH does not incorporate or is not bridged to M- proceeding from:

It is Acetylcholinum, which dejtsvuet on ?-receptors

AH some time drifts in a cleft or rima then is exposed to the return pinotsitozu and is partially lysed



Impulse is not generated. The m- in any way has not shown itself. AH has not passed a signal because could not incorporate to M- in view of that he incorporates or is bridged only with n-.



Sentry!

What to do or make?

:o

[natalya13]

konechto I meant, that the M-blocker does not act on the ?-receptor.

Sorri

[AO]

Now it is clear.

Thanks for explanations