It seems to me, knowingly some directions of a psychotherapy at identification ra...

[The anonym]

It seems to me, knowingly some directions of a psychotherapy at identification divide or share;part a basic difference and differences between "toper" and "drunkard". By and large the majority of people occupying Russia - drunkards, t. e. People to which like to drink and be in this ebrietas, feasts, a sit-round gathering, etc., but no more that. The drunkard unlike a toper can always stop, fasten, there comes natural remission under influence of many external and internal reasons (job, family, shame, etc.) . The drunkard can drink all life and is not slept, to be socially and kulturalno is made, to work, have family, to not degrade and have sufficient intelligence and an instinct of a self-preservation and a self-survival that it is not slept. And "toper" is already probably really sick person who has lost an instinct of a self-preservation, any brakes and the control followed a way of self-destruction and self-destruction. And the majority of us of "drunkard" - t seems to me. e. Drinking people who began to feel that began to go too far, the feeling of a measure and is simple ustali from such load on an organism.

[Alexander]

The difference really is. Only as it seems to me, you do or make the same mistake or error, as the majority of people; recognizing as topers only the vagabond "uncle Vasju" from a city dump. At an alcoholism up to its or his final stage the person is enough often and socially also is cultural made, the intelligence also is enough often practically does not suffer - I for example, nauchno-research job even in a drinking-bout scribled;)), and many have families. Even to me the toper and 3 her a stage (to him already for 60 is known; gets drunk with one bottle of beer; drinking-bouts on a month, epileptic attacks and other to charm of an encephalopathic stage) - which when it or he does not have physical opportunity to drink it is remarkable translates with 3 h (!!!) the European tongues; messages with it or him conversation very interestingly - he the widely-read and erudite person; despite of the illness or disease. Illness or disease of an alcoholism has some or a little bit stage, consistently replacing one another. I consider or examine;survey " household drunkenness " as " a zero stage ";) . It agree, there are people who keep at this zero stage all life; but, unfortunately, there are more than people who think, that they at this stage. The alcoholism, as well as any mental disease, is characterized by signs, in aggregate the giving this or that PROBABILITY of the diagnosis. And, unfortunately, in the circle of dialogue I see people at whom signs of a "zero" stage pass in simtomy the first more and more. Also that the most terrible, the person practically does not notice it or this... The shame mentioned by you - does not cause or cause remission, and on the contrary reduces them is as alcohol suppresses or stops fine this shame... And influence of external circumstances (job, families) - will stop a toper, than the drunkard - last yet poznal to the full negative influence of alcohol more likely... I do not consider or count healthy when it is pleasant to poison or persecute itself. Also I do not consider or I count possible or probable to divide or share;part the drunkard and a toper... These are dreams - " I can drink, not becoming an inveterate drunkard ". Yes, everyone can drink, not becoming an inveterate drunkard, but any time; at someone all life, but much more often years 5 10 before occurrence expanded narkomanicheskih syndromes....

[Alex]

Can be and so, and probably "true" alcoholism not too often meets. Hardly I shall throw pair links to interesting researches on this question later.
But in my opinion it is more reasonable to wait, while the medicine will not find more precise criteria for differentsijatsii " household drunkenness " and "alcoholism" as risk of independent check, to what category it is necessary to carry itself, is too great.
Life in general too good piece, that rushly so to risk iz-for rather doubtful result of " social binge ".

[VitEk]

Though a pot name, only in an oven do not put:) the Drunkard or a toper - consequences for a liver, a brain, GASTROINTESTINAL TRACT, kidneys, heart, mentality and all rest identical without dependence as the person of names. Alcohol in fact does not know - a toper you or the drunkard and kills also those and others is identical. So this or thus wrongful and farfetched razlelenie on drunkards and topers for calm itself;)

[Alex]

Too it is correct:)

[Michael]

VitEk! Why you have solved that alcohol necessarily "kills"? In reasonable doses he is on the contrary useful to health. Alcohol can act and as a medicine and an agent of treatment. About it or this it is written much, it is unessential to look at it from extreme positions. Extreme measures always lead up to the point of irrationality when from the fly inflate or fan the elephant. In unreasonable quantities or amounts or to bank of coffee it will kill harmfully everything if you in day will drink a pack of tea and will plant or put health of any healthy person. And conditional separation of the people consuming alcohol on drunkards and topers is made to explain a difference in motivation of consumption of alcohol and a degree of its or his health hazard of the person. Will agree that many people consume alcohol on a miscellaneous, someone drinks once a year, and someone deeply the whole year.

[Trine]

The drunkard therefore also the drunkard that fault or wine daily does not drink "reasonable" 30 gr.

[Alexander - to Michael]

Your report has reminded me an old aphorism - alcohol in small doses is useful in any quantity or amount. If alcohol - a medicine, on a parity or ratio of efficiency and by-effects rather dangerous. Alcohol without any "extreme measures" and "razduvany" - is the poison or venom killing nervous system. It is the fact, not propaganda. Did not reflect, why the decontamination is made by ethanol? The another matter, that the same poison or venom is both Analginum and Paracetamolum. It not medical, but anesthetizing agents; in some cases anesthetizing is useful in sense of simplification of sufferings; but it does not treat illness or disease, and I think, you will not tell or say, that Analginum "is useful" to health. From anesthetizing what has the greatest efficiency at the least by-effects gets out. Alcohol - not the winner among anesthetizing. Certainly, its or his overdosage can be and not so is terrible, as an overdosage of Paracetamolum; But last, fortunately, does not possess property to cause dependence and removes or takes out a pain more effectively. Name to me though one medical property of alcohol (ethanol, instead of etanolsoderzhashchego a drink)? You the reasonable person and fine know, that cold C2H5OH does not treat, and aggravates; too and with diseases GASTROINTESTINAL TRACT. Write to me all "medical" and "useful" properties of alcohol; I either shall deny them, or I shall find more effective and less safe agent for treatment. And the last: Yes. Alcohol a medicine. From a life... I not " the militant nondrinker " - I simply follow the facts. Probably, any from them and sporny; but I followed them and being operating or working toper so "alkogolenenavistnicheskuju" a position alcohol has affected or influenced mine not strongly. I fine knew, that alcohol and advantage or benefit of it or him did not see a poison or venom; but all the same saws...

[Michael-Alexander]

To speak in detail about curative properties of alcohol at the given forum and to prove it in my opinion is netselessobraznym and even harmful as for this purpose there are specialized sites and forums where the problem of an alcoholism, and the stamp, taste, quality, property and utility of spirits (faults or wines, cognacs, a champagne, beer, etc.) is discussed not. There is a certain position of physicians and psychologists about prophylaxis by alcohol of some illnesses or diseases and morbid statuses for repeat moderately drinking people. poverte nervous system the wine-glass of vodka at dinner kills not, and the excessive uncontrollable and long use in lots or plenties of alcoholic drinks. Any chemical substance becomes a poison or venom consumed in lots or plenties or doses for the human body. From extreme positions when inflate or fan from the fly of the elephant harmfully practically all. All is harmful also all is poisoned. Simply even it is surprising, that we still live.