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Просмотр полной версии : A sushestvujut li " worried well "?



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Ognejar
30.11.2004, 07:17
Pro4itav eto, a takzhe ku4u drugix materialov, nevol'no zadumajesh'sja nad etim voprosom:estl ' li na samom dele spidofobi?


The Moscow donors infect sick with a lues and AIDS














In Moscow and to Moscow suburbs the strongest epidemics of a lues, a hepatitis and AIDS threaten. Within last 8 years in a medical network of Moscow and the Moscow area the blood of the infected donors acts.


As Mosoblprokuratury Elena Pchelenkova has informed the main expert of a department of introduction and operation of computer facilities, " us the most serious epidemic has comprehended or overtaken, and not only the Moscow area, but also all country. This epidemic concerns or touches not only a lues though has begun with it or him, but still AIDS and a hepatitis In and With ".


" In these conditions there was a problem of the latent period of these illnesses or diseases at donors, this problem exists since 1993, and with her it is very complex or difficult to struggle ", - has noted Pchelenkova.


" For the period studied or investigated by me such blood have received 325 person ", - she has told or said. " From one donor if he personnel also hands over plasma once in two weeks as it is authorized the order of Ministry of Health, can receive plasma 20 person ", - has noticed Pchelenkova.


" I everywhere spoke about this problem, but all remains on a place ", - she has added. Pchelenkova has directed the reference or manipulation addressed to the public prosecutor of the Moscow area Ivan Sydoruka in which she speaks about a problem of the infected donor blood. In a basis of the reference or manipulation its or her research job on a problem of use of a "dirty" donor blood in medicine and in manufacture of pharmaceutical production has laid down.


As they say in circulation addressed to the public prosecutor of the Moscow area, " a dirty blood " not only pour to patients of hospitals, but also use for preparation of children's inoculations against reproach.


In a basis of the reference or manipulation to the public prosecutor the greater or big research job spent by Elena Pchelenkovoj on a problem of use of a "dirty" donor blood in medicine and in manufacture of pharmaceutical production has laid down.


This job is in own way unique: very few people will come in a head to trace a problem of 8 years, to upholster with materials and documents thresholds of various departments, to listen or auscultate to threats in the address and to not lose hope to find the truth.


" Before entering on job in Office of Public Prosecutor I was engaged in development of computer systems of the account of the donors infected by various infections in territory of the Moscow area, - Elena Pchelenkova has told. - But the most awful in this history - under an available information, till now is saved probability of use " dirty " bloods by manufacture of an interferon and the immunoglobulins used for children's inoculations against reproach ".


" Without exaggeration it is possible to tell or say, that on a map national safety of the country is put, - Elena Pchelenkova speaks. - On application of the law (" About a donorship of a blood and its or her components ") the Moscow area for a long time is outside of a legal field. Of a blood of situated near Moscow donors make raw material for Service of a blood of all Moscow region and the foreign pharmaceutical companies working in territory of Russia. Powers of these companies, in turn, provide with vaccines and medicines the basic part of our country ".


In the materials, given to a management or manual of Office of Public Prosecutor for check, in particular, is available more than 50 notices from the Moscow regional dermatovenerologic dispensary (MOKVD) to address of Station of a hemotransfusion of the Moscow committee of public health services for 1997-1999. All d





onory, specified in these notices, are sick of a lues, and many of them had time to hand over a blood on some times. One of donors - the inhabitant of Serpukhov - has managed to set up a record: the infected blood plasma from it or him have received 20 person.


In total during this period the infected donors have made more than 140 krovodach, and the further way of "spoiled" bioraw material because of absence of the centralized account of venereal patients frequently was not traced at all.


In Moskovsk regional research clinical institute (MONIKI) it or him. M.F.Vladimir and in scientific research institute of first aid by it or him. Sklifosovskogo have confirmed, that an incubation interval or a delitescence for hepatitises In, With and AIDS till now finally medicine it is not certain.


For example, the incubation interval or delitescence of a HIV-infection can last 30 years, and at hepatitises this size and at all a variable. The latent period for a lues - that is time after which terrible disease can be defined or determined by means of a Wassermann reaction, - a minimum of 6 months.


According to time or temporary position from February, 19th, 2001 " About the order karantinizatsii donor plasma in establishments of service of a blood of Committee of public health services of city of Moscow " the blood for transfusion can be used in 3 months.


The document says, that "duration" of a phase of a diagnostic window " (i.e. impossibility of revealing of an infection by means of analyses) at various virus infections varies and on the average makes about 90 days.


Proceeding from it or this endurance or quotation svezhezamorozhennoj donor plasma within 3 months in the frozen status at-40 degrees, repeated inspection of donors and acknowledgement or confirmation of negative results of the testing received during the moment of preparation of stored or kept plasma, allows to consider or count karantinizirovannuju plasma virusobezopasnoj ".


Even to the person far from medicine it is not absolutely clear, as it is possible to reveal at the donor presence of the specified infections in trimensual term if the incubation interval or delitescence makes from half a year up to several tens years.


" Cases of transfusion of the infected blood and manufacturing from it or her medicines and vaccines are described in the periodical of the Moscow society of experts of transfusion medicine " the Bulletin of Service of a blood of Russia ", - Elena Pchelenkova continues.


As she said, a principal cause of the developed situation - absence of legal adjustment between organs of public health services of different subjects of Federation - Moscow and the Moscow area, however all this is fine known both Moscow regional, and to the Moscow city management or manual of public health services.


Journalists managed to talk to people who became victims of a negligence of doctors and imperfections of diagnostics. Among them is both old men, and teenagers. But, as it was found out from conversation, former patients of medical institutions of Moscow and Moscow suburbs (for the clear reasons we do not name names), native did not suspect them, that have once been infected.


Four years back 57-years Andrey Trofimov (the surname is changed) has laid down in one of the Moscow hospitals on operation for which the hemotransfusion was required. According to its or his widow, the man and has died, not having learned or not having found out that has been infected.


Though it is not known, that it is better, - there were cases when unexpectedly received summons or agenda with the invitation to visit or attend regional kozhvendispanser led to terrible family scandals and even a suicide. Thus medical institutions frequently do not trouble themselves to inform the person owing to what he is infected, for example, by a lues, and regional KVD cause such patients, as "contactors", i.e. simple "clients" of a veneral disease dispensary.


In Russia unique precedent when suffered from a medical mistake or error it was possible to prove the correctness in court is fixed or recorded, is has occured or happened 4 years ago in Penza.


The tragedy has occured or happened in 2000 when operation on excision of a lien was necessary for the 47-years woman. A lien have safely taken away, but a month later at the analysis at the patient have found out a HIV. As it was found out, a terrible virus have brought at a hemotransfusion. Has been revealed, by the way, and the donor - "spidonosets", appeared by the doctor of the same hospital.


Despite of presence in UK the Russian Federation corresponding or meeting clause or article, have not excited or raised criminal case, but lawyer Didenko managed to achieve large material indemnification of moral harm which has been paid to the victim from the budget of area. The court last half a year.


According to the lawyer, he almost month has spent in library, studying or investigating the profile literature on a transfusion (medicine of a hemotransfusion) as in court verbal duels with the main therapist of area were coming him.


But medical podkovannost has helped or assisted not at once. In the beginning the court of October district of Penza has passed the decision not in favour of its or his client. The Board has agreed with it or this on civil cases of regional court also, and only the presidium oblsuda has cancelled the decision and has directed business on repeated treating





.


The reasons of the previous refusals from the point of view of the law were absolutely ridiculous. The court bore or took out decisions in favour of physicians, motivating it is that " in the Russian courts or vessels similar business or affairs were never considered or examined;surveyed ". The second argument was already familiar to us " absence of the expensive diagnostic equipment ".


Use of a "dirty" blood is not a rarity in the most different corners of Russia. In May, 1997 the big public resonance has caused or called a case of infection at a hemotransfusion in one of hospitals of Ministry of Railways of several patients a human immunodeficiency virus (HIV).


Then in investigation of this case has borrowed or occupied Mosgorprokuratura. As it was possible to find out to consequence or investigation, physicians simply did not manage to find out a HIV-infection in a blood of the donor. The quantity or amount of antibodies on which the virus comes usually to light or is usually taped, in a blood of the donor was so insignificant, that usual check has not shown presence of a lethal virus.


In 2000 in Krasnoznamenskoj rajbolnitse Kaliningrad the seriously ill patient to the man needed a hemotransfusion. Because of deficiency of the donor blood prepared duly to the patient have poured the plasma which has been not checked up on a HIV.


In 2003 in district hospital of Khanty-Mansiysk 116 litres of a donor blood, in particular, 1,5 litres of a HIV-infected, 22 litres - with a virus of a hepatitis With, ten litres - with a hepatitis In and more 9 litres - with a lues have been destroyed. Other raw material has been defective on biochemical parameters.


In all similar cases an explanation the same: scarcity of monetary "contentment" which has not allowed to use the effective methods of diagnostics for a long time applied in the West.


Understanding, that marriage or spoilage grows every year, doctors at the same time convince the population of infallibility the test-systems, applied on stations of a hemotransfusion and reducing an opportunity of infection to zero.


Actually any guarantee, that in similar cases vybrakovyvaetsja all infected blood, no. The data collected by employee Mosoblprokuratury Elena Pchelenkovoj testify To it or this.


During with 1996 for 2001 Moscow regional kozhvendispanserom the hemotransfusion, infected by a lues, to 325 recipients is officially registered.


As approves or confirms Pchelenkova, since 2001 such statistics in MOKVD simply is not conducted. From materials follows, that many donors had been ill with " pudental illness or disease " not once, but despite of everything easy continued to hand over a blood.

Lonisa
18.12.2004, 13:51
Oral sex and HIV


B.Dillon, F.M.Hecht, M.Swanson, I.Goupil-Sormany, R.M.Grant, M.A.Chesney, J.O.Kahn








The purpose:


To investigate or research prospective cases of oral transfer of a HIV in sample of faces from a primary HIV-infection.








Methods:


During with 6/96 on 6/99 us 122 persons from a primary HIV-infection which was defined or determined as term less than 12 months from the moment of registration of the diagnosis received by means of test or dough IFA have been surveyed. The risky behaviour during when there was an infection, was found out by filling questionnaires and interrogation. Potential cases of infection through oral sex subsequently have been checked up by additional conversations with the epidemiologist, studying of medical maps and where it was represented possible or probable, acknowledgement or confirmations from the sexual partner.





Results:


In 20 (16.4 %) cases by the first treating possible or probable by infection were oral sex. From this 20 cases 3 have presented the insufficient additional information for acknowledgement or confirmation. From the remained 17 cases 9 (53 %) subsequently have been recognized not connected with oral transfer because of presence of other potential ways of infection. Two from these patients have informed, that never were engaged in proctal or anal sex, however both thus have recognized, that had an episode of the use of narcotics with the subsequent memory blackout, and, thus, with reliability recollect actual risky behaviour could not. Four patients have informed on one case of not protected accepting proctal or anal contact and one has informed on break of a condom during this period to time when they have caught a HIV. As a result of the subsequent studying in 8 cases (6,6 %) oral sex has been certain as a probable way of infection of a HIV. Thus each of patients considered or counted, that the risk at oral sex is absent or is minimal.





Conclusions:


Probably, transfer of a HIV at oral sex is exaggerated. However, even at keeping strict criteria of selection, the risk of oral transfer has made 6,6 % in our research of a primary HIV-infection. Despite of lower risk of transfer, oral sex can be one of ways of transfer of a HIV of that he occurs or happens more often. This conclusion has great value for prophylaxis. The standardized research of transfer of a HIV through oral sex that it is better to understand epidemiologiju and risk of the given kind of sex behaviour is necessary.








Comments:


Research was spent on small (and enough homogeneous - men, gays, inhabitants of San Francisco) sample - 122 persons. Earlier researches in which the found out risk at oral sex was much below, were spent in the various countries and social groups, on much lot of people. Authors of the given research recognize, that ":, transfer of a HIV at oral sex is exaggerated: " also declare necessity of carrying out of more "standardized" researches.


Oral sex can be one of ways of transfer of a HIV of that he occurs or happens more often: " the Statistical risk even minimally dangerous behaviour that above, than is more often it practises.


The risk depends on many circumstances which are not mentioned in theses of research - for example, whether there was an ejaculation? The "accepting" or "entering" partner? (contact to a semen or a blood can be dangerous only; infection through a saliva is impossible) Depth, intensity, travmatichnost and many other things. As a whole data of this research do not deny, and once again confirm that is spoken in standard references on depression of risk of sexual transfer, namely:


Oral sex is much less dangerous, than proctal or anal or vaginalnyj, but in some cases can be by transfer of a HIV.





But also,


Oral sex is dangerous to the "accepting" partner;


The risk of oral transfer can be lowered if to not suppose an ejaculation in a mouth;


As well as at other kinds of sex, the condom protects from infection.

olga1959
29.12.2004, 16:24
oooooooooo... Dooooop (((

my_kit
16.01.2005, 07:24
Tan ', tol'ko znaja vraga v lico, mozhno oderzhat ' nad nim pobedu... k sozhaleniju, lik vraga mi tol'ko tol'ko uznajom... i on ne tak slab, kak nam jego prepodnosjat... jesho moi slova pomjanete...

nata35
22.01.2005, 21:25
Dop, you again people to scare away has undertaken?


Voobshchem from resulted or brought clause or article clearly one: on a HIV to surrender it is possible only after 30 years, differently it is impossible to consider or count the test authentic; on a lues in a year, and on hepatitises in general sense to surrender is not present, since this all is useless. A conclusion: it is necessary to consider or count everyone it is universal or without exception lues in advance infected at least, a HIV, hepatitises In and With and something or something else what clause or article holds back, for example HTLV. By the way unlike Staffs or States on last infection at us even screening of a blood like do not do or make, though in Staffs or States she meets extremely seldom, nevertheless she as is very dangerous. Outside of suspicions there can be only those who a sexual life never lived, in hospital never were and never any analyses handed over also inoculations did not do or make.


It is time to go probably to choose soap more fragrantly and a cord is stronger... And what to do or make?


Under clause or article it is obviously felt, that she is written by the journalist wishing as it is possible to submit more sensationally a material which reliability causes greater or big doubts. Concrete proofs of statements completely are absent. Next pugalka for the inhabitant, like that the ozone gap grows more quickly, than there will come or step a new glacial age and consequently all mankind will die out years edak through a floor of year. You know how much years I already I hear bajki what because of a hydrogen sulfide which loads and loads in Black sea, is fast all rvanet so, what will fill in Odessa a sulfuric acid (concentrated) and in general will wipe  out?


The greater trust is caused with other clauses or articles about risk at oral sex. Nevertheless all of them recognize, that this risk nevertheless is lowest. And that he exists, anybody, except for aids.ru does not deny.


WELL IT IS IMPOSSIBLE SO, DOP!

Farida
23.01.2005, 19:17
By the way it is to clause or article some months, and the most ridiculous that when have found " the main expert of a department of introduction and operation of computer facilities Mosoblprokuratury Elena Pchelenkova "


(Interestingly she in general knows as a HIV rasshifrovyvaetsja) that she has told or said that in general such did not speak anything.


Seaman, and you yet have not understood what for Dop it does or makes? What for he pushs here statejki written ljudmi far from a HIV?


If has not understood that I shall tell or say - simply izdevaetsja above ljudmi, if all of us not reagorovali on all on it already for a long time it would bother him. Therefore I personally on it shall not react.

makella
03.02.2005, 09:18
Not it or her well why so it is categorical) I personally to all I believe))

Levenyatko
14.02.2005, 19:21
Dope, sincerely I admire with your fidelity of the phobia! If people were devoted also each other there would come or step world peace and for various infections there would be no chance!) as to pevoj clauses or articles it really delirium, but ideally approaches or suits that fobit further) and at oral sex there is a risk, but he is really small, it is the fact! It is possible to find everything in an Internet, everything, including for continuation of a phobia! Probably, with her the life is more interesting, though can try or taste for interest couple of days not fobit? Can it is pleasant?

citymax
16.02.2005, 16:08
Yes is not present. He does not scoff at anybody. Simply such the effect from it or this turns out. At it or him a roof for a long time has broken and it is necessary to tell or say is from what. Here he also tries to find the proof to of what it is already convinced and clings already to all that under an arm or a hand comes across.

phytomix
23.02.2005, 12:42
seaman


To that dokozat?

qwer
23.02.2005, 16:32
Doping pisal - " the Risky behaviour during when there was an infection, was found out by filling questionnaires and interrogation. Potential cases of infection through oral sex subsequently have been checked up by additional conversations with the epidemiologist, studying of medical maps and where it was represented possible or probable, acknowledgement or confirmations from the sexual partner. " - delo v tom, chto anketam v takix voprosax doveriat ' nel'zia! Mnogie gomoseksualisti skrivaut svoi status ot okruzaushix i pishut v ankete - heterosexual. V svou ochered ', mnogie narkomani skrivaut eto i toze pishut nepravdu. Ponimaete, daze v shtatax, obshestvennoe mnenie ne v pol'zu gomoseksualistov, chto uz tut govorit ' o narkomanax. Sveziy primer - gubernator New Jersey (dvazdi zenat), nedavno, povedal vsem o svoei sexual'noi prinadleznosti, skazal chto on goluboi - rezul'tat - uxod v otstavku v Nojabre etogo goda. A vinudelo ego v etom priznatsia - popitka odnogo iz ego podchinennix ego shantazirovat '! Prosto tak on nikogda bi ob etom ne raskazal. Toest ' bol'shinstvu ludei, kotorim est ' chto teriat ', prosto ne vigodno razzglashat ' pravdu - eto kasaetsia kak golubix, tak i narkomanov.


Vot mnenie (podtverzdennoe ciframi) o gruppax riska na 2003 god (1 - samiy visokiy risk, dalee snizaetsia):


1. Perelivanie krovi ot HIV + cheloveka


2. IDU - ispol'zovanie odnogo shprica s HIV + chelovekom


3. Priemniy anal'niy sex, pri nalichii u activnogo partnera jazvi na chlene


4. Priemniy anal'niy sex, pri fakte semiaizverzenia aktivnim partnerom


5 i 6 - toze samoe, chto 3 i 4, no pri vaginal'nom sexe.


Vse ostal'nie sluchai - risk namnogo nize.

Alija Ahanova
01.03.2005, 02:40
Samiy nizkiy risk - u aktivnogo partnera pri oral'nom sexe i otsutstvii jazv i ran na chlene.

Elita
03.03.2005, 10:58
" The donor - " spidonosets " " - a strong phrase)


One, only it speaks that the person navajavshy in general hera does not understand given clause or article in questions of a HIV and other infections.


Dop, read a yellow press less, and that there and about kidnappings inoplanetnymi dudes write, by the way too it is unpleasant)))

Romashka
09.03.2005, 05:24
Lisss - " the donor - "spidonosets" - takix sluchaev raz, dva i bol'she net. V osnovnom eto priamoe perelivanie krovi ot cheloveka k cheloveku, v udalennix regionax, tam gde nebilo drugovo vixoda.

Vasilev
25.03.2005, 09:17
SIFON


I meant a word-combination!


I by the way not so long ago have seen by one bus a label which me have personally deeply revolted, I quote - " the Machine or Car is protected with a bug- ". I do not know to that as, and it wanted to me to cut in a muzzle to the owner of the given bus.

slon
27.03.2005, 10:08
Bug--

Loving Number One
31.03.2005, 17:39
Lisss and correctly it wanted. Absolutely, the pancake, at people of brains is not present or conscience...

AleksP
13.04.2005, 09:24
Here goats it or him to get so on a phobia on a floor of year. And there and the machine or car has given if only of it or this will get rid

GnoM
13.04.2005, 12:07
And to get it is possible and not only on a phobia...


And simply and particularly...

proverka_
24.04.2005, 21:50
C ---prozdravljaju first, secondly, a question to the Siphon: to me here the doctor from Staffs or States has told or said, what at them in clinic one patient has died from a pneumonia, have opened ---there was aids though analyses year (!) showed a minus, as though you it otkommentiroval? Infa not for nervous, excuse, brothers ---but all we people adults))) And more: whether it is necessary to me to retake particularly (that it would not be desirable) if handed over once in 8 months, the answer minus. So in what Dop it is a lot of rights, strangenesses...

amanda83
06.05.2005, 06:37
Thanks Tatyana. I would comment so.


Very not clearly. When it or him tested year and how? If IFA at a stage of AIDS which was apparently observed, it is not actual.


And if they have lifted its or his history for many years back and have found out, that he year was tested, and has then hammered on it it is certainly very strange, but, nevertheless, unfortunately, not unprecedentedly... Such cases it is described units on millions. I think, that the first variant is more probable. And it is known and it is studied or investigated it is not enough... I here by the way at transatlantic "colleagues"


Has just read through, as the muzhik year after almost bezriskovogo contact was tested because of signs and only then it or him have advised to surrender in laboratory where a blood of monkeys check. There was SCMV, i.e. a simian cytomegalovirus. It or he had signs HIV and the Syndrome of Chronic Weariness... Voobshchem mysterious here it is not not enough...

mari36
10.05.2005, 11:14
Yes... Greetings, Simen, still time ---I too hope, what it or him tested Ifoj already on an end-stage, differently it to any mare to not sew (((You with what sudbami so late on are not present you go?

jok
13.05.2005, 06:27
... And expression " worried well " och is pleasant to me, type " ottrepetavshie in vain ", much poetichnee, than "fobiki"))) And more: the link not on a subject, it is simple pohihikat ---anything more silly for a long time did not see))): http: // www.holylemon.com/funny-animations/badgerbadgerbadger.html

Lena N
19.05.2005, 10:29
Tanuxa privet, davno tebia ne slishal - rad tebia videt '


Seaman - a mozet eta goriachaa afrikanka do tebia razvlekalas' s obezianoi, zashedshei v tot ze bar, toze davno ne videvshei svoei zeni, nu i posle 500 gramm smirnovki poneclos' Afrika delo temnoe - tam vse na odno lico

Jamilya
27.05.2005, 15:35
Tania izvini ne zametil voprosa - po povodu etogo pacienta - lichno ja s etim sluchaem ne znakom, no vpolne verojatno chto u nego bil AIDS vizvanniy ne HIV, a rakom kostei (Bone Marrow), ximio/luchevoi terapiei ot raka, steroid terapiei, prinimal lekarstva dlia pacientov s transplantom ili prosto bil hemophiliac. Vazno poniat ' bil li v nem obnaruzen virus HIV ili eto bil prosto diagnoz AIDS.


Tebe perezdavat ' absolutno nenuzno! No, esli eta misl ' ne ostavit tebia do zavtra - idi i sdai v kachestve psixoterapii. Nervnie nagruzki takovo xaraktera tebe ne nuzni i opasni dlia zdorov'ja.


Celuu, SIFON.