About immunoblote

[Irinka]

Ineteresuet opinion nachitannnyh comrades (for example OCD'er) on written below. Reflections are caused or called by researches on which in 20 % it is found out in healthy people not less than 3 strips on immunoblote.





Why immunoblot consists of check ___? It is dear or expensive. Why to not allocate one antigen-antibody inherent exclusively a HIV and to inspect only on it or him? If such does not exist conclusions are logical:


1. __ on segodnjashchny put an antigen inherent exclusively a HIV (HIV--1/hiv-2).


2. At all reacted fibers in immunoblote vozzhmozhno otsutsvie a HIV.





Officially, the probability otsutsvija a HIV at prisutsvii __ fibers is small. Guards absence __ the list of viruses and the statuses, able to answer on concrete fibers. Is not present __ (I shall be glad if it not so) rekomendantsy in this occasion for lechushchih doctors. Theoretically, the situation of presence of this "bouquet" able is possible or probable to give or allow all spectrum of fibers, but to find out it or him today in standard conditions of hospital (and not only in hospitals of the post-USSR, and all over the world) __. And immunyj and PTSR roles do not play the status. Will write in a card " a virus load

[memphis]

About presence of antibodies to the certain antigen su


djat on occurrence of the painted strip on a site of a membrane, where lo


kalizovan the given antigen. At negative result immu


noblottinga (absence of the painted strips) positive and with


Hypochondriac results IFA are regarded as lozhnopolozhitel


nye. If on a membrane find out three strips corresponding or meeting


To products of different genes (gag, pol and env), result immunoblottin


Hectares - obviously positive. However in the majority of laboratories


Results immunoblottinga estimate or appreciate according to criterion


mi, accepted Association of principals medical laborato


ry the USA and the Center under the control of a case rate : result immunob


lottinga it is considered positive if on a membrane strips are visible,


Corresponding or Meeting any to two of three antigens of a HIV - p24, gp41 and


gp120 (or gp160). The Positive take immunoblottinga under


tverzhdaet the diagnosis of a HIV of an infection.


To estimate or appreciate, at present on one antigen, fiber p24 it is possible for mine only efficiency of therapy, but to not diagnose in any way.

[rain]

It is amusing:)





Really, if there is a chemistry of a virus (a HIV-1, a HIV-2.... The HIV-n, but all of them name a HIV, i.e. at them at all any general or common chemistry!) why it is impossible to make one test which would reflect presence of this general or common chemistry. In fact to do or make 10 tests actually somehow on-small a measure strannovato. It is not simply dear or expensive, also time takes away it.


Surprising business

[Antoshka]

Let's take a HIV-1 and a HIV-2. we shall solve a problem for them. Then we shall generalize the decision up to a HIV-N...;-D

[Tatjana V]

Well, and why is not present? The Question not rhetorical: why is not present?

[Nicole]

Mathematics for struggle against a HIV


Up to or after?


Instead of...

[Welcome]

, probably, now everyone will explain Andrey a constant mutation of a HIV... The type because of it or this cannot be allocated one general or common fiber.

[allekca@e-mail.ru]

So in fact and the list is not present, __ besides a HIV what fibers can give, why at healthy there are these strips.

[Anna1976]

Similar, .net

[Olechka]

OCD'er Considers or Counts a subject provocative.


More likely she "inconvenient".

[leonid_nn]

I have already responded you on mine, that I have no desire to discuss on scientific and pseudo-scientific subjects with laymans, especially I am not the expert in the field of virology. Moreover, you it is remarkable that me, as a rule, laziness to search for links in a network for acknowledgement or confirmation of my words is known as this fact, and. Thus I believe, that the one who really is interested, without effort can find the interesting information independently, using net search.





But if you so are concerned by this question, are the greater or big fan or amateur of mathematical calculations in the field of virology and nevertheless demand the answer to the provocative question (provocative he even only because has been turned immediately to me, knowing about me the aforesaid and having named therefore me " widely-read comrade ") I shall afford only small remark.


Your question is begun with: " Reflections are caused or called by researches on which in 20 % it is found out in healthy people not less than 3 strips on immunoblote. "


And so, I dare to notice, that from this statement follows, that if so was actually, namely if at healthy people it would be found out not less than 3 strips in immunoblote blot would be considered positive and, accordingly, these people would not be healthy . The digit has been named by you of 20 % (!). And what percent or interest from this percent or interest had more than 3 strips in immunoblote? I for some reason considered or counted, that in our country even at worst yet more than 2 % are infected. And proceeding from your data all of us already we live in Africa. Intresno, what for researches meant? Can has confused that?


I shall dare to remind a saying still: " When liars of digit lgut consider or count! "


So who there that about "inconvenience" of a subject spoke?

[Kristishka]

Almost classics, E.Fauchi, K.Lejn, a HIV-INFECTION


[url] http: // www.afew.org/russian/AIDS1.pdf [url]


P. 2185 (29)


"... Faces with negative results IFA and PTSR at immunoblottinge the painted strip is found out. Are usually painted weakly. Are formed as a result of two-dimensional reactions with the antigens which have been not connected with a HIV. "





Thanks OCD'er, has forced to recheck data whom named on memory. Minium strips has increased (I repent, was not right), the percent or interest of people has reduced.


The problem has remained. Anywhere the strip the general or common for everything is not spoken, that, and also the list of the antigens which have been not connected with a HIV is not resulted or brought.


The Saying can with success ispolzovatsja against the theory of a HIV-AIDS . How to be with "gold-standard"? Has carried that at whom IFA "+" blot "-", and at whom on the contrary. And what to do or make by at whom both that and another plus? A situation real, if in first two cases the diagnosis "-", why in the third case always unequivocally "+"?





The quantity or amount of the strips necessary for the diagnosis in the different countries differs. 3 strips are enough for the diagnosis not everywhere.





I think, the situation will change at worst years through 20 when there will be people lived with dignozom a HIV + without therapy till an old age. For now hardly the opinion in obshchesvte will change quickly. Inertia is too great.

[Lera]

" The Quantity or Amount of the strips necessary for the diagnosis in the different countries differs. 3 strips are enough for the diagnosis not everywhere. "





Not everywhere. Looking what strips.





" Has carried that at whom IFA " + "blot" - ", and at whom on the contrary. And what to do or make by at whom both that and another plus? A situation real, if in first two cases the diagnosis " - ", why in the third case always unequivocally " + "?"





Why in the third case always "+" a question not to me perhaps. Though, I think, all it is clear why. About the second case too strongly I doubt, that IFA will be negative at positive blote and that thus the unequivocal answer will be given: "minus".





" Has forced to recheck data whom named on memory. Minium strips has increased (I repent, was not right), the percent or interest of people has reduced. "





So in fact with the conclusions based or founded;established on it or these and on mine there has been begun a topic! What leaves, in itself there was no sense? Probably it explains that I did not respond till now.





Simply for comparison:





"... One painted strip is found out in 20-30 % of faces with negative results IFA and PTSR at immunoblottinge at least. Usually these strips are painted weakly. "





But it is not spoken how much as a maximum:-)





And





" Reflections are caused or called by researches on which in 20 % it is found out in healthy people not less than 3 strips on immunoblote. "





About a maximum too anything and about intensity of painting at the same time.





And the problem has really remained. And not one. Much they still are and will be.





" I Think, the situation will change at worst years through 20 when there will be people lived with dignozom a HIV + without therapy till an old age. For now hardly the opinion in obshchesvte will change quickly. Inertia is too great. "





The situation can will change not only when such people will be, and when such people there will be an overwhelming majority among those at whom there is a diagnosis. For now force of common sense in a society is too great still...

[Ilona]

" For now force of common sense in a society is too great still... "


It is philosophy and the attitude or relation to a topic is no, but with time a subject an expense, shall tell or say the opinion.


C common sense at a society greater or big problems were always. Earlier koldunej burned down on fires, now the society believes in that that the TV has told or said. Now a society uverno, that the HIV and AIDS one and too, and are ill or sick with it or this narcomaniacs, homosexuals and prostitki.

[Sila]

And the society will pay for the ignorance, but nevertheless nevertheless it is more than traditionally sane people, than not healthy on a head.

[pixtovka]

Well here... A sick subject... immunobloting... In occasion of strips at 20-30 % of people I shall tell or say the following... It is already enough old information... She was actual when there were no tests on the basis of rekombinantnyh genes... But by inertia this infa wandered in due course from one source in another... Actually, having read through more specialized literature, has encountered for example that all is far not patients give a strip on different environments... Far not all!!! Having talked to doctors on this subject about the last similar situations, has understood, that all such cases, or the majority came to an end with fat plus... By the way, and the level of antibodies in a blood varies depending on a stage of disease and from features most immunki and a virus... And, in general, it is impossible to speak about reliability what that techniques... It is possible to judge reliability of the given test or dough, i.e. what or stamps of the test or dough... Of all this it was convinced on the experience... I shall not retell...