PTSR (DNA or RNK)

[request]

Day kind, the most respectable!


In some days the wife will be in Moscow and there are plans to visit or attend scientific research institute of Virology and Epidemiologii (as to me here have designated are two most advanced laboratories), to communicate there to experts and posdavat analyses. Can be there udastsja get to the bottom of the true reason of this or thus devil's fixing or lingering raskobasa. As the last IFA at us with the wife now negative (at the wife term nearby 6 mes, at me almost 9 mes) most likely and in Moscow he too will be otr. The truth at us systems of 3-rd generation AT, and in capital of 4-th ag-aO, moreover and blot at once do or make simultaneously (as to me have told or said in scientific research institute of Virology). Naturally, taking an opportunity, we wish to hand over and PTSR. As if there are signs (and them much) and if they are connected with a HIV (that it would not be desirable...), That PTSR should show it (as I think). But here such delemma. In Moscow do or make two types of analyses PTSR, one type costs or stands ~300-400 rub and is done or made for couple of days, and another ~1500-2000 and are done or made 10 slave to days. Who knows, than they really differ, what their reliability on term 6 mes (at otr IFA) and by what of them in our situation to do or make more logically (or both of type at once)? Also who knows, than reliability PTSR on DNA from RNK differs and what it is better to do or make on term 6 mes? Before we did or made only one PTSR in Vladivostok. He cost there 200 rub and was done or made two days. In the conclusion to us have written " DNA of a HIV-1 and a HIV-2 it is not found out ". Then I had a term 5 mes, at the wife ~3 months the Status then was much nastier, than now but then at us still were not shown LU. They have appeared only in two weeks after delivery of that analysis. Once for a long time in the beginning of year at a forum I was interested in reliability of it or this PTSRa and to me have responded, that was not present nikoj a difference between cheap and dear or expensive O, and 10 days do or make because for this time collect analyses at a heap of people, and then all it razom banish through the test-system to spare something there. From other sources I heard, that "dear or expensive" PTSRy these or it 10 days continuously test all, something there interpolate, model, etc. What even they there distinguish or recognize a dead virus or similar to a HIV (type HTLV) and in general all something even otdalyonno the reminding HIV necessarily should come to light.. I.e. all these or it 10 days go processing of the analysis. I could not learn or find out anywhere, whether there were in an expert or a practice cases when the result of one type PTSRa contradicted another. Now at a forum there were many new people, erudites, professionals and experts or auditeurs. Who can this question will clear?, as always, I shall be grateful to all who will respond.

[Kate]

Newman,


Neither to the first, nor to the second, especially to third I cannot carry myself, but I shall try to respond. It is enough one day for statement PTSR. The difference in the price on PTSR on DNA of a HIV, i.e. qualitative PTSR is caused by the cost price the test-system and laboratory. Accordingly the more dear or expensive reactants the laboratory uses, the there is an analysis more dearly or expensively. Cost of reactants is not always connected with quality the test-system. Here there are people who well know a difference between reactants on which it it is put PTSR on Sokolinke (cheapest), in scientific research institute of the Immunology (or Virology? Itself has already forgotten...) And in scientific research institute Epidemiologii. An intermediate variant on mine the best (at least so it seemed to me), though all variants quite normal and PTSR in any of these laboratories it is possible to believe. The difference in time is really caused by congestion and the organization of job of concrete laboratory. It should not excite especially. From an integral blood receive Serum and store or keep it or her in a refrigeration cabinet, so that's all right. Except for that for PTSR value or meaning;importance alive he at all has no defines or determines a virus or already dead, the main thing that DNA (RNK) a virus was.


PTSR on RNK a HIV - a virus load or quantitative PTSR which defines or determines numerical quantity or amount RNK a HIV in Serum or an integral blood on ml. Costs or stands much more dearly or expensively qualitative PTSR (PTSR on DNA of a HIV in blood cells (lymphocytes), defining or determining or is, or there is no DNA of a HIV). Thus sensitivity quantitative PTSR it is usual below sensitivity qualitative PTSR. 400 spears or repetitions on ml. Against 50 spears or repetitions on ml. Therefore it turns out, that reliability qualitative PTSR even above though it is considered approximately identical.


And the last. PTSR it is capable to define or determine DNA (RNK) even a dead virus, but PTSR on DNA of a HIV never will accept for DNA of a HIV something another, for example DNA HTLV therefore as the analysis reacts to the most stable sequence genoma a HIV, instead of something another. For HTLV there are the the test-system. In structure of these viruses there are proteins with identical masses (are only partially crossed!), That can give pair strias in vichevom blote at presence HTLV and absence of a HIV at a serodiagnosis, but all the same will not give never completely positive blot. PTSR from this disadvantage it is free, but the restrictions with which are inherent in him is necessary to be considered. For example limited sensitivity (often with a head sufficient) and probability of false result. As a rule PTSR it is considered authentic more, than on 90 %. In your term PTSR it is not so actual, since it or him basically use for early diagnostics of a HIV-infection during a seronegative window or for diagnostics of a HIV-infection at children born from a HIV + of mothers when the serodiagnosis is noneffective. But if once again it would be desirable to be convinced of already available results of analyses it is possible to make. Why would be not present? And is even better let will make IFA on Abbott AxSYM - one of the best in the world the test-systems or on Bio-Rad GenScreen Plus Ag-Ab (a HIV-1, a HIV-2, a HIV-1 the strain) - too one of the best.


Success.

[Yuran091]

OCD'er


It is very grateful for the detailed answer, did not expect even... Something Wanted to specify still for itself. I.e. it turns out, that RNK is a quantitative analysis (load), and DNA is qualitative. Then, on logic of things, in the beginning it is done or made by DNA and at its or his presence it is then put RNK. If DNA finds nothing, in RNK necessity automatically disappears. I somewhere read, that for DNA and RNK reactants of one type - only in the second case greater volume of job - therefore such difference in the price can be used. It is interesting, whether as tests PTSR under names differ and all they are grinded on all known strains of a virus or is such mutirovannye-NON subtypes which they "do not see"? I Understand, that on such as at us terms to hand over PTSR not actually, but if a rod signs and if they from this muck (God forbid), the virus in a blood in sufficient for its or his definition kol- should be visible. Especially I even do not have imagination as at such raskolbase there can be not defined or determined a virus load... In occasion of IFA I handed over on systems GenScreen, Veronostika and Avitsenna. Only it in my opinion names of reactants, and on what systems to me put - I (and most likely local doctors) not in a course. How I have understood the test-system is the equipment or installation on which spend the test by means of Serum and reactants? And where in Moscow these systems (Abbott and Bio-Rad GenScreen) cost or stand? Whether If they in scientific research institute of Virology and Epidemiologii?

[Irochka.]

Logic at you correct. Quantitative PTSR there is no sense to put, if qualitative shows absence of DNA of a virus. It is valid so, that reliability PTSR kolebletsja vzavisimosti from the strain of a virus. Usually prajmery for the test-system try to pick up so that to allocate the most stable site genoma a virus, the least subject to mutations and poorly differing at various strains. Nevertheless the strain influences reliability of the analysis.


At risk of infection with any exotic strain Americans advise to do or make PTSR Amplicor V1.5 manufactures of firm Roche. The truth is the test on RNK a HIV, accordingly quantitative PTSR. It is considered, that he possesses high sensitivity to all strains of a HIV. As in Russia I do not know. If you speak, that handed over PTSR on DNA of a HIV-1, a HIV-2 such test too should be sensitive to all of the strain of a HIV, considering, that the HIV-2 will far enough defend from a HIV-1 genetically. Therefore I think, that he should be believed. Except for that test-system PTSR Amplisens, developed by scientific research institute Epidemiologii should be grinded first of all under the "Russian" strains, which actually javvljajutsja African. Voobshchem it is possible to believe such PTSR in my opinion. At yours "raskolbase" if he has been caused by presence of a HIV, the virus certainly would be in a blood in defined or determined PTSR quantity or amount and the load was obviously more than 50 spears or repetitions on ml.


The test-system is not only the equipment or installation, but also the reactants entering into the complete set. In scientific research institute Epidemiologii interesting you the test-system precisely is, and in other places too.

[ax_f]

In nii epidemiologii that on Highway intuziastov, IFA - MUREX HIV ag/ab combo... But here I here have read through what is it not the best system (a set?) since she from 149 samples has found only in 137 Well I the truth all the same I am not soared for 7 months already!





Njumen you have a little encouraged me about a liver, thanks!

[petrik]

OCD'er


And you work not in medical medium, at least there is such impression.


I thank for answers! Me your competent opinion on some questions still or even interests.


Leaves, that reliability PTSRa in many respects depends on the one who and as it or him puts but if there is no necessary "gauge" or "prajmera" the analysis absolutely neinformativen. At this forum there is a person who for a year with superfluous did or made about 15 different PTSRov in different places and nevertheless (at otr IFA) it or he is disturbed till now with some signs and LU. They that is - that are not present. I not spets in anatomy, but whether can be hidden a virus in an adenoid tissue and to be inaccessible for the test-systems, the blood for which undertakes from a venous blood and thus still and to cause different signs? With analyses IFA all is more or less clear, except for antigen P-24. On one data he is defined or determined in 2-3 weeks after a becoming infected. On another one week-two-rub or -three prior to occurrence AT in IFA. And if the seronegative window is stretched or dragged out for a year and more - then when it or he can be snatched out? Still not all is clear with immunoblotami. They too as that differ among themselves, i.e. Are classified on reactants, systems or it more or less the standard test for all laboratories? Whether there Is a basic difference in what a lab to hand over this analysis? Under what fibers they are usually grinded and how much they should drop out for acknowledgement or confirmation IFA? And if a virus slightly zamutiroval, whether there can be these fibers unrecognizable in blote?


Besides obscurely, whether the mutation of a virus can influence duration serokonversii, as well as reception during this period immunomoduljatorov such as TSikloferon or Immunofan? Speak, that the long period of development or manufacture of antibodies happens very seldom (~1 %) and meets only at hardly sick people or at experienced hooligans-narcomaniacs. That is interesting, we with the wife and did not hurt or be ill;be sick especially before and narcotics did not smell even, and here such kolbasnja and a minus in such terms... Certainly, it would be desirable to hope, that at us something another differently all is the theory AIDS-centers about 1 % necessary poherit on a root. Though speak, that this virus is well studied or investigated (ostensibly even better, than the flu), all taki is given to me, that our doctors far not about itself know all also questions arises more, than is answers.

[Marina About]

Greetings Newman


At me? Not on a subject. You have told or said... And if the seronegative window is stretched or dragged out for a year and more - then when it or he can be snatched out? So happens?


At me same as at you beda.kolbasnja!!!. But "-" in 6 and "-" in 16


Months after the second "-" married .no now and it or her


kolbasit the beginning...


If you will clear that let know. I in Canada and local doctors after two minuses in 6 and 16 on me as on the idiot look when I ask still or even the test to make.


The analysis of a blood on 3 pages and all in norm or rate. And kolbasilo longly and seriously...


And it seems to me we not one with such f... Her


Mine -mail vsorokko@yahoo.ca


All the best to you

[Oksanoid]

mont>


In all AIDS-centers speak as under a carbon paper, that 3- the most authentic term, 6- is a control term at real risk, and year are the extremely rare or infrequent single instances in case of reception of serious narcotics and illnesses or diseases immunoj systems. However in SPb the center the doctor- has declared, that they have cases of a window till 2th years to an acute phase up to 8 months, and the doctor kanditat sciences in the Samara center has declared, referring to clause or article of any professor as till 4-5 years. Though in its or her expert was real in Samara maks term - 11 months at the pregnant woman. I can not this information confirm @ deny...

[svetlana]

Newman


Thanks for info.


Now at me is High Perfomance fuel for "races"

[Elena AV]

mont>


I to you have charged or loaded the letter on your box. Soobshi as has passed or has taken place.

[Petj]

mont,


Now you needed bolid to be borrowed or lent at the Racer (to him he already without need) up to the complete set and with you will not catch up.





Newman,


Oh you garazd to set questions, now at me so much time is not present, that to all to respond. As will appear - I shall respond.

[Estranged]

D*er.


Yes eto tochno with me now to not catch up...

[joker]

mont


Newman


Minus in six months it on 99 % a guarantee of that a problem of yours "raskolbasa" not a HIV to search it is necessary other reason. Data in occasion of reliability of the analysis in 6- months are received from doctors (k.m.n and prof.) in scientific research institute Epidemiologii (Fed. The center on struggle with vich/??n) and scientific research institute of Virology.


Of the reasons it can be full.

[lara]

Lisss


Thanks, you are absolutely right, but who eti 1 %?


At me "-" in 16 mes but 100 % still are not present?

[Seduction]

mont


These or It of 1 %, I can explain who.


Narki, vhlam killed the organism, people suffering an oncology at least in 3-rd stage, people the gone through transplantations of organs. Actually if so exact digits after 6- months the analysis is absolutely exact according to data of a site www.aegis.com, 99,748 % you such reliability are important arranges???

[Katya Petrov]

22 mesjaca-m and * 305; nus... a eto "ne4to" vo mne tolko progressiruet...

[Katty2002]

+-,


Dop, here we here all inhuman efforts try to find out who such this "something" or "somebody". As your history not absolutely usual, is to you of steam questions. If there will be time - throw off the contact address on swan_s@smtp.ru





mont,


And as at you in Canada name High Performance fuel - Gasolene + or... Super? Do not leave absolutely, I there to you still pismetso have thrown. As you will make -stop, esteem on medne.





Lisss,


Dima, greetings! That is on aegis.com we have still a probability of 0,252 %, i.e. almost 399 chances from 400, what all will be OK? Well, that, raskad quite good, we live-. By the way to me recently have informed, that in Moscow there is an institute of the Immunocorrection. There there are own labs and the experts-. I called there, to me have informed, that they also do or make PTSRy (DNA and RNK) on 300 and 400 rbl. sootvetvenno. To not tell or say, that is dear or expensive. You did not hear, how this institution in general is quoted?





OCD'er,


I am similar you particularly gruzanul last questions o-o. On them to me if it is fair, even doctors with whom I had honour to communicate in we howl city, plainly respond could to nothing. The only thing I somewhere saw the schedule on antigen P-24. There he appeared right at the beginning and with development or manufacture of antibodies - disappeared. And right at the end of (end-stage) when antibodies disappeared - he appeared again.

[marinav]

Newman,


No, not gruzanul. On on what the answer I do not know, and I shall tell or say, that I do not know. Simply now absolutely there is no time to write the detailed answer, but I remember, that promised to respond, so still I shall try to make it.

[Svetik79]

I welcome you, the most worthy!


In brief I shall inform on news, to those who in a course of events. Since June, 1-stst the wife is surveyed in Moscow. By results of from scientific research institute of Virology, IFA (ag-aO), blot and PTSR on term 6-7 months are negative. Manager. A lab. Speaks, that on a HIV it is possible to hammer. The wife will hand over in scientific research institute Epid-gii. In turn I yesterday have received "-" in our Far East AIDS-center in 9 months There me longly "treated" conversations what more to hand over it is not necessary, term sufficient. That even if a virus zamutiroval all peerly he has remained the same and that antibodies should be already defined or determined. In the same place have told a case about the muzhik at which zashkalil IFA. And in a week he has surrendered again and a minus. Found out longly and have found out, that before the first delivery he obozhralsja seafoods (in particular boiled crabs) and on such -in fiber at the muzhik were developed or produced AT which IFA has accepted for a HIV. Such here prikoly. Basically it would be possible podzabit, if not memoirs on a terrible acute stage (I do not know that) nesk. Months back and not presence of importunate signs now which any doctor cannot explain. Signs real - not from " bad bashki ". In particular disturbs periodic burning sensation LU, submandibular, zaushnih, on a nape, in district of a solar plexus. Not often, but nesk. Once a day such happens. As a rule the burning sensation lasts 10-20 minutes and passes or takes place. It is real I can grope only submandibular LU. Sometimes they hardly more - sometimes hardly it is less. Temperatures were not since February. Often bawls, especially after meal. poderyot minutes 10-20, and then LU are connected also all passes or takes place. The burning sensation in a mouth is sometimes observed, is sometimes simple shchipit tongue. Also after meal sometimes on palms there is a hypodermic eruption in the form of red points- and the burning sensation of heels is observed. Also on the face, brachiums and a back from time to time pours out an eruption or very fine or type komarinnyh stings. Happens, that "burns" the face. Has still noticed, that with periodicity nesk days on the face places observe an ecdysis of a skin. Then for two-rub or -three days passes or takes place and so on. More shortly, you will not become bored or will not miss. I do not know with what all it it is possible to connect, but with a liver something is obvious not though With it is not found, and as though outside of activity. On D and other types at us do not do or make. Last days on a background of all of this kolbasni it is observed it is unreal the raised or increased tonus - simply enerdzhajzer any. After the serious working day forces are felt to work still (weariness it is not felt in general) or to run cross-country of km 5-10. The truth at these flashes of energy sometimes pricks heart. Before anything similar at me was not, even up to kolbasni. It can so Immunofan operates or works. I am going to nedelki through three in capital on full inspection, can that will clear up. Clearly only, what is it it is not similar on staryj-a "kind" HIV, especially does not come to light or is not taped by analyses. Can at whom was that similar or there are what imaginations in this occasion?

[Mashka]

At me such sensation, what is it all consequences of nervous stress.


You so do not think?

[MOHAX]

FG,


Yes you know, if not that contact, yes not shishka after it or him, I and was not soared. All especially began it later couple of months very slowly and obscurely. Even when I zalyog in hospital with any obscure intoxication and an icterus (without an active hepatitis) I was abs. It is quiet, and about VICHah even did not think still, and kolbasnja all came more abruptly and more abruptly. Already after I have found clauses or articles about SOS. And in immunograms after were almost double TSIKi, yes percent or interest CD4 is lowered. Now like he in norm or rate, but has strongly raised or increased CD8 (=1,1). It can immunofan so has affected or influenced - who knows.

[otd]

Ken, greetings!


The letter has not received.

[Gatwick]

Greetings Newman!


I congratulate you and yours to the spouse on negative analyses.


Confirm reception from me letters on elektronke datirovannoe with today's number.


Success.