Questions on *quot; gormonopodobnomu nN?Oo??*quot; some substances

[Lelik]

Recently has encountered clause or article applying on scientific. The citation: *quot; To fitoestrogenam sterols, flavony, flavonoidy, izoflavonoidy, kumestany, lignany and halkony concern. Besides estrogenopodobnogo actions, fitoestrogeny show...... *quot;.





Still the citation: *quot; the Soya contains izoflavony genistein and dajdzein. Genistein and dajdzein can be present at plants in the form of aglikonov or glycosides. In an intestine glycosides are hydrolized under action of an intestinal microflora and turn in aglikony dajdzein and genistein, dajdzein in the further is partially transformed in ekvol. As it was found out, glycosides izoflavonov are capable to cause or call estrogennyj the answer of cells. It is a little above estrogennaja activity at aglikonov genisteina and dajdzeina. However the most essential contribution in estrogennoe brings action of a soya ekvol which on the structure or frame most of all reminds Oestradiolum. *quot;







Questions:

1. Whether there were you such information in more scientific sources?

2. It is how much lawful to speak about estrogenopodobnom action of those substances which are not hormones? In particular me interest flavonoidy.

3. How the design of researches, for the proof estrogenopodobnogo actions of any substances should be sustained?

[shura_zd]

Vitaly, fitosteroidy absolutely lawful term, and you know it since times of institute - steroid structure or frame of glycosides and was their basis kardiotropnogo effect (one time was seriously spoken about the mechanisms of action caused by similarity A and glycosides, decodings interaction of the same ginseng with various estrogenovymi receptors are very activly conducted).

Whether well here to that from us will come in a head to ask the woman with disfunktsionalnymi uterine bleedings she uses *quot; for strengthening health *quot; a ginseng? And in fact in different kontsentartsijah, on different plantations, in different age groups and so forth, etc.

As effects of vegetative preparations are never fixed as collateral, doctors and people are convinced that preparations from vegetative raw material as though and do not have chemical structure or frame.

The same soya is nice as fitoestrogen (in our country works Bershtejn vspb much, its or his clauses or articles are in Problems of endocrinology), but problematic as zobogen. T.e as researchers write (and jobs billion - the problem remains in many respects obscure, but new ways for studying selective modulators of steroid receptors open).

Now it is precise podtverzhdannoj in mnogotsentrovyh clinical researches of the proved efficiency of preparations of a soya or its or her long purpose or appointment is not present, but epidemiological researches emphasize low frequency of vegetative displays of a climacteric syndrome at aziatok. Fitoestrogeny in nutrition - one of explanations, genetic and kulturalnye features-other.

But to the expert in narcology how to be surprised to presence chemical ligandov in travkah - marihuana, efedra and a hemp have grown from the Earth as used to say Filatov - *quot; tea, not chemistry what, tea, an environment *quot;.

[Alex1982d]

I not about questions of steroid glycosides.



Flavonoidy ANY attitude or relation to steroids have no. Though form in plants of communication or connection with Saccharums, named as glycosides. But steroid glycosides and flavonoidnye - two huge differences. The molecule of any Saccharum can and be fastened to benzene, and to alcohol, through--communications or connections, from it or this he will be called as a glycoside, but in any way a steroid and it would be strange to apply on gormonopodobnoe action.

And zhenshen which you mention, has saponiny dammaranovogo of some, those yes - though something are similar on chemical structure or frame to steroids.





Whether it is possible to ask you even briefly to tell to me concerning 3. What should be design of researches for a substantiation estrogenopodobnogo that action, what even on himstrukture and close does not concern to steroids?

[LarisaKartashova]

Vitaly, has run eyes the link resulted or brought by YOU, and, poskolu she especially on brains has not laid down, began to speak that is the most interesting to me in this segment - is guilty.

If to speak about design everything, that to me met is an establishment of chemical structure or frame of an alkaloid, a label and studying of linkage in receptors + one million jobs actually on structure or frame of receptors.

With flavonoidami it is weak, but I remember, how ten years ago osteoprotektivnyj the effect osteohina Sanofi was discussed in communication or connection with structural similarity to steroids - anyway, \ linkage with steroid receptors was rejected. As the preparation for a long time is superseded more distinctly or clearly operating or working, I shall look or see, that is still.

[Snezhanna]

The first got link from Pubmed - and there them navalom.

Acta Physiol Hung 2002; 89 (4):463-70 Related Articles, Links





Effect of single neonatal treatment with the soy bean phytosteroid, genistein on the sexual behavior of adult rats.



Csaba G, Karabelyos C.



Department of Genetics, Cell and Immunobiology, Semmelweis University, Budapest, Hungary.



Hormonal imprinting develops during the perinatal critical period, when the target hormone meets the yet unmatured receptor. As a consequence of imprinting the receptor accomplishes its maturation reaching the binding capacity characteristic to adults. In this period in the presence of foreign molecules similar to the target hormone faulty imprinting may occur with life-long consequences. Soy bean contains phytosteroids which can mimic estrogen effects. In the present experiments single genistein (20 microg) or combined genistein + benzpyrene (20 microg) treatments were done neonatally and the sexual behavior of male and female adult animals was studied. Genistein significantly increased the lordosis quotient of females, which was compensated by neonatal benzpyrene treatment. Genistein also enhanced the sexual activity of males, and this was significantly not reduced by parallel benzpyrene treatment. The results show that neonatal genistein exposure can imprint sexual activity for life and the presence of a second imprinter can modify genistein's behavioral effect.



PMID: 12489755 [PubMed - in process]



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[-Victoria]

So casually got typical enough publication-

: Eur J Cancer Prev 2003 Apr; 12 (2):165-9 Related Articles, Links





Mammographic densities in a one-year isoflavone intervention.



Maskarinec G, Williams AE, Carlin L.



The estrogenic and antiestrogenic effects of isoflavones, phytoestrogens contained in soy foods, have been proposed as mechanisms for the possible involvement of soy products in the development of breast cancer. We investigated the hypothesis that isoflavones reduce mammographic density, a predictor of breast cancer risk. We conducted a double-blind randomized trial in premenopausal women who received a daily 100 mg isoflavone supplement or a placebo over 12 months. Compliance with the study regimen was confirmed by urinary isoflavones and tablet counts. We used a computer-assisted method to measure mammographic density and paired t-tests to assess changes in mammographic characteristics from baseline to follow-up mammogram. Complete sets of mammograms were available for 30 women. The two groups differed by age and mammographic density at baseline, but were similar in body weight and nutritional intakes. We detected no significant changes either in the size of the dense areas or in the per cent densities. A non-significant decrease in breast area among intervention group subjects was probably the result of methodological issues in comparing mammograms taken under different conditions. In conclusion, our findings do not support the hypothesis that isoflavones decrease mammographic density during a one-year intervention. Although this exploratory study had limited power, it appears that isoflavones do not exert an estrogenic effect similar to hormone replacement therapy on mammographic density.



PMID: 12671541 [PubMed - in process]

[kmp]

That's just the point, that on everyone report about *quot; ?O?O*quot; effects it is possible to find report about *quot; OO??O*quot; effects. Besides, researches are spent basically on animals or on cellular cultures, and used *quot; Oi?UN*quot; concentration. As it is told or said in one of clauses or articles: Steady state plasma concentrations of flavonoids are usually not much higher than 1 microM even in populations that consume large amounts of plant material. This concentration is relatively low compared to the concentrations of flavonoids that were commonly used in cell culture systems to demonstrate their effectiveness.







More shortly, all this area though also scientific, but still a fantasy:)

[LUCKY]

Typical enough review supporting or maintaining as a whole your point of view, Vitaly

: J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 2002 Dec; 83 (1-5):133-47 Related Articles, Links





Phytoestrogens for hormone replacement therapy?



Wuttke W, Jarry H, Westphalen S, Christoffel V, Seidlova-Wuttke D.



Department of Clinical and Experimental Endocrinology, University of Goettingen, Robert-Koch-Strasse 40, 37075, Goettingen, Germany



Due to some severe side effects *quot; classical*quot; hormone replacement therapy (HRT) is currently being challenged by a therapy with phytoestrogens. Particularly soy and red clover derived isoflavones are advertised as selective estrogen receptor modulators (SERMs) with only desired and no undesired estrogenic effects. Evidence that this is the case however is scarce. Most studies investigating climacteric complaints did not find beneficial effects. A proposed beneficial effect on mammary cancer is unproven. The majority of studies however indicate an antiosteoporotic effect of isoflavones, while putative beneficial effects in the cardiovascular system are questionable due to the fact that estradiol which-like isoflavones-increase HDL and decrease LDL concentrations appear not to prevent arteriosclerosis in the human. In the urogenital tract, including the vagina, soy and red clover derived isoflavones are without effects. Cimicifuga racemosa extracts are traditionally used for the treatment of climacteric complaints. Evidence is now available that the yet unknown compounds in Cimicifuga racemosa extracts prevent climacteric complaints and may also have antiosteoporotic effects.

[trollebus]

At comparison of hormonal activity ekstr. A clover, a soya from the point of view of linkage of receptors, they izoflavony can be considered or examined;surveyed as weak estrogens, Progestinums or androgens (their affinity in tens-hundred thousand times below natures. stroidn. Components). The present methodology does not allow to distinguish agonizm or antagonism of these interactions. ekstr. From Cimicifuga racemosa at all does not possess that activity,

J Steroid Biochem Mol Biol 2003 Feb; 84 (2-3):259-68

Comparison of hormonal activity (estrogen, androgen and progestin) of standardized plant extracts for large scale use in hormone replacement therapy.

Beck V, Unterrieder E, Krenn L, Kubelka W, Jungbauer A.

Institute of Applied Microbiology, University of Natural Resources and Applied Life Sciences, Muthgasse 18, 1190, Vienna, Austria



But its or her extract has shown as the most comprehensible replacement ZGT (to her all is devoted Maturitas 2003 Mar 14; 44 Suppl 1).

In brief in the original:

it was the first time that the therapeutic effects of an aqueous/ethanolic extract, C. racemosa BNO 1055 (Klimadynon/Menofem), were investigated in a randomized three-armed, double-blind, and GCP-conform clinical trial. The comparison included a placebo and a positive control in the form of CE. The results clearly indicate that CR BNO 1055 has desired SERM activities, not only in the rat but also in postmenopausal women. While CE significantly increased endometrial thickness of the postmenopausal women, such effect was not seen in the CR BNO 1055 treated patients. It was repeatedly shown in the past that CR extracts do not stimulate uterine weight and the expression of estrogen-regulated uterine genes and their protein products. 17-Estradiol increased these parameters. Hence, it appears safe to conclude that the substance (s) with SERM activity present in CR BNO 1055 do not address the uterus. It is, therefore, unlikely that they may stimulate the endometrium to such an extent that an endometrial cancer may develop. Consequently, a treatment with CR BNO 1055 can be performed without additional progestin application.

In the vagina, estrogens exert desired effects by stimulating acidity of the vaginal milieu. A lower pH prevents ascending infections. The increased number of superficial cells in the vaginal smears of patients treated with CE is a clear sign for estrogenic effects in the vagina. In comparison to placebo, vaginal superficial cells were also increased under CR BNO 1055 and this effect approached significance. Not only lowering of the vaginal pH but also lubrication upon sexual arousal is a desired estrogenic effect. Hence, CR BNO 1055 may fulfill in part also these desired criteria by exerting a mild estrogenic effect in the vagina of postmenopausal women.

In a previous placebo-controlled study, using a higher than recommended CR doses [25] as well as in the present investigation, climacteric complaints were significantly reduced by treatment with placebo preparations. In addition to this placebo effect, both, CR BNO 1055 and the CE, had in the present study favorable and significant effects on climacteric complaints. We utilized the MRS [22] to estimate the effects of the treatment on climacteric complaints. Additionally, we followed the proposal to subcategorize the 10 MRS items into three factors [23.] The factor 1 *quot; hot flushes*quot; comprises the MRS item 1 *quot; hot flushes*quot;, item 2 *quot; cardiac symptoms*quot;, and item 3 *quot; sleep disorders*quot;. This factor was obviously reduced by placebo and a significant improvement was noted under CE. CR BNO 1055 also showed an improvement, which, however, was not statistically significant. The factor 2 *quot; psyche*quot; comprises the MRS item 4 *quot; depressive mood*quot;, item 5 *quot; nervousness*quot; / *quot; irritability*quot; and item 6 *quot; impaired performance/memory*quot;. Factor 2 was obviously improved by placebo. A stronger improvement, though statistically not significant, was observed under CR BNO 1055 and CE. The factor 3 *quot; atrophy*quot; comprises the MRS item 7 *quot; disorders of sexuality*quot;, item 8 *quot; urinary symptoms*quot;, item 9 *quot; vaginal dryness*quot;, and item 10 *quot; joint and muscle symptoms*quot;. This factor was least improved under placebo, but significantly improved under CR BNO 1055 and CE.

This study showed that treatment with placebo reduces the intensity of climacteric complaints. Particularly, susceptive to this placebo effect is the factor 1 *quot; hot flushes*quot;. Less susceptive is the factor 2 *quot; psyche*quot; and least susceptive is the factor 3 *quot; atrophy*quot;. The data also demonstrate that both, CE as well as CR BNO 1055, improved the three MRS factors in addition to a placebo effect. Analysis of the total MRS Score showed that CR BNO 1055 was as effective as CE in reducing climacteric complaints, when compared with placebo.

The effects of CR BNO 1055 on neurovegetative symptoms are undoubtedly exerted in the brain. Items like hot flushes and tachycardiac episodes emerge due to an overactivation of the hypothalamic GnRH pulse generator, in consequence to a deficiency of estrogens [26.] In human, the overactivation was shown by a simultaneous occurrence of hot flushes and LH pulses in the serum. This effect is exerted by hypothalamic mechanisms, a structure where the GnRH pulse generator resides in. Investigations with rats repeatedly showed a reduction of LH pulsatility under aqueous/ethanolic C. racemosa extract BNO 1055. These data add to the evidence that the C. racemosa extract BNO 1055 contains yet unidentified compounds with an estrogenic effect on the hypothalamic GnRH pulse generator.

The other climacteric complaints, particularly those subsumed under factor 2 *quot; psyche*quot;, are certainly estrogenic effects in suprahypothalamic brain structures. Most likely they are exerted in the mesolimbic systems, which express ER and ER genes. Factor 3 *quot; atrophy*quot; is a somatic factor and comprises vaginal dryness and rheumatic-like complaints. Vaginal dryness is clearly reduced by conventional hormone replacement therapy. In this study, an estrogenic effect was also observed under CR BNO 1055. The MRS item 10 *quot; joint and muscle symptoms*quot;, individually evaluated, was significantly improved by both, CE and CR BNO 1055, indicating estrogenic activities of CR BNO 1055.

The data concerning bone metabolism deserve some detailed discussion. It is known that osteoblasts and osteoclasts are estrogen-receptive. In ovary-intact or estrogen-substituted women, the activity of osteoblasts and osteoclasts is well balanced, i.e. bone resorption initiated by osteoclasts is immediately counteracted by bone formation initiated by osteoblasts. Withdrawal of estrogen, in animal experiments, results in increased activities of both, osteoblasts and osteoclasts, i.e. an increased bone turnover [33.] Though both parameters were stimulated, the activity of osteoclasts was outbalanced, which lead to constant reduction of bone. This catabolic effect is counteracted by estrogens. Patients treated with C. racemosa BNO 1055 showed significantly increased serum levels of bone-specific alkaline phosphatase, which is indicative for an effect of osteoblast activity. This effect was not seen under treatment with CE. Patients treated with CE had decreased levels of serum CrossLaps, the metabolic products of bone-specific collagen-11. Low CrossLaps levels are the indication for a decreased activity of osteoclasts. As a net effect, in bones, the results for CR BNO 1055 and CE are comparable. The ratio of the bone-specific alkaline phosphatase:CrossLaps is significantly increased under both treatments, in comparison to placebo. Although the mechanism of action may be different from that of CE, which decrease osteoclast activity, CR BNO 1055 appears to have osteoprotective effects in bones by increasing osteoblast activity.

It is suggested that not yet identified substances in the CR extract BNO 1055 bind to a yet unknown estrogen-binding site in the endometrium. Also, yet unknown dopaminergic compounds may contribute to the pharmacological profile of CR extract BNO 1055.



And how much or as far as it will be clinically comprehensible, will show current a wedge. Researches:



Nutr Clin Care 2002 Nov-Dec; 5 (6):283-9

Black cohosh: an alternative therapy for menopause?

Mahady GB, Fabricant D, Chadwick LR, Dietz B.

UIC/NIH Center for Botanical Dietary Supplements Research, Program for Collaborative Research in the Pharmaceutical Sciences, University of Illinois, Chicago, Illinois, USA.

Due to the long-term health risks now associated with hormone replacement therapy, many menopausal women are actively seeking alternative treatments. One such alternative is black cohosh (Actaea racemosa, syn. Cimicifuga racemosa), which has been used in the United States for the treatment of gynecologic complaints for more than 100 years. Review of the published clinical data suggests that black cohosh may be useful for the treatment of menopausal symptoms, such as hot flashes, profuse sweating, insomnia, and anxiety. Results from the most recently published trial, however, indicate that black cohosh is not effective for the treatment of menopausal symptoms in breast cancer survivors being treated with tamoxifen. Because the overall quality of the published clinical trials is low, two new randomized, double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical trials are currently underway in the United States. To date, only one standardized black cohosh extract has been tested clinically; the current recommended dose is 40-80 mg per day. At least 4-12 weeks of treatment may be required before any therapeutic benefits may be apparent. Adverse reactions such as nausea, vomiting, headaches, dizziness, mastalgia, and weight gain have been observed in clinical trials. No drug interactions are reported in the medical literature. The estrogenic effects of black cohosh are controversial, and the more recent data indicate that black cohosh extracts may have an anti-estrogenic activity. Owing to potential effects on sex hormones, however, black cohosh should not be administered to children or during pregnancy and lactation.

[Ghost]

edravstvujte!

I am a student biofaka Kaliningrad GU and I plan to be engaged in influence fitoestrogenov on behaviour of molluscums. And now here has found out your comments to a subject about fitoestrogenah in a forum, but, alas, two-year-old prescription. If you have links on this subject and it not so will complicate you, I shall be madly glad! In advance I thank)))